Inexpensive Shotgun Mics

Cracker Funk

Cracker Funk

I've got some documentary work coming up, and I'm going to need a shotgun attached to my camera. I currently have an Audio Technica ATR55, and it works surprisingly well, considering how cheap it is. But I think it's time for an equipment upgrade, if at least just by a little bit.

I'll be recording on a Zoom H4n, so an XLR mic would be preferable, no? Would it really make much a difference if I got a mic that plugged in with a 1/4 plug (something like the Rode VideoMic)?

My ballpark is $200-ish; I can go over that a little, but not too much. And my price-range is for mic only; if need be, I'll purchase shock-mount and dead cat separately.

Some models I'm considering:

Rode VideoMic
Rode VideoMic Go
Audio Technica AT875
Audio Technica AT897
Rode NTG1
Rode NTG2

Your thoughts?
 
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Cracker Funk said:
I've got some documentary work coming up, and I'm going to need a shotgun attached to my camera. I currently have an Audio Technica ATR55, and it works surprisingly well, considering how cheap it is. But I think it's time for an equipment upgrade, if at least just by a little bit.

I'll be recording on a Zoom H4n, so an XLR mic would be preferable, no? Would it really make much a difference if I got a mic that plugged in with a 1/4 plug (something like the Rode VideoMic)?

My ballpark is $200-ish; I can go over that a little, but not too much. And my price-range is for mic only; if need be, I'll purchase shock-mount and dead cat separately.

Some models I'm considering:

Rode VideoMic
Rode VideoMic Go
Audio Technica AT875
Audio Technica AT897
Rode NTG1
Rode NTG2

Your thoughts?
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ebay and to go for the more obscure mics which others haven't heard of but are extremely good quality. For example, I bought an ECM 674 which is normally more expensive than an NTG2.

This was $75 USD.

Otherwise, I'd shoot for the NTG1 over the NTG2.

Now, I just need to figure out how to make this FR2-le work to its optimum level...
 
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With an H4n, the NTG-1/2 will have too weak an output for the pre-amps in the recorder, resulting in more noise amplified with input gain. The AT875 is hotter, and probably your better bet.

B&H has a kit with the AT875, shock mount, and cables for $217. You'll need windscreening as well.

The problem with relying on something like the RØDE VideoMic Pro is that the unbalanced connection is less stable for running longer than just a couple feet. If you want to use it on a boom pole, you're running a long enough extension to risk signal degradation and interference.
 
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Just to get it up front... On-camera is the worst place for the mic! Okay, now that that is out of the way...


I personally would opt for the RVM. They will have a wider pick-up pattern, so, although you will get more ambient noise you will also capture more of everything else.

You might also think about a cardioid or hypercardioid, but by the time you add in the shock-mount and wind protection you are probably over your $200 budget.
 
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Alcove Audio said:
Just to get it up front... On-camera is the worst place for the mic!
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Agreed wholeheartedly, but probably for different reasons.

Unless you're trying to introduce the camera as a character as part of the theme of your doc, trying to incorporate the viewer as a direct spectator interacting with your subjects, the idea of the sound being centralized on the camera is a bad idea. It's not remotely immersive; probably the opposite.
 
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Thank you all for the recommendations! I definitely would prefer not mounting to the camera, but I won't have a boom-op (most of the time).

Alcove, I appreciate what you say about the VideoMic picking up more, and that's definitely something for me to consider. At the moment, I think I'm leaning towards the AT875, only because of the XLR connection. The vast majority of the time, the mic will be mounted on the camera, but for those situations in which I'll be able to have a boom-op, it'd be nice to be able to use the same mic for both situations.

As far as plug-in connections are concerned, does the difference really only start to matter as the distance between mic and recorder increase? Let's say I went with the VideoMic. It's obviously not intended to be stuck on the end of the boom pole. Mounted on your camera, the cable between it and the recorder is about a foot or two long (and will be taped down). In that situation, are there any real drawbacks of having an unbalanced connection?
 
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I've got the NTG-1 and have used it on camera with an H4n for some doc work - it's not a bad combo, although we always tried to have a lav on the subject and only use the on-camera for backup or unmic'd subjects. If you can I'd suggest looking into a wireless lav as your primary if you don't have a boom op.
 
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AcousticAl said:
The problem with relying on something like the RØDE VideoMic Pro is that the unbalanced connection is less stable for running longer than just a couple feet. If you want to use it on a boom pole, you're running a long enough extension to risk signal degradation and interference.
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Do converters make a balanced connection or is it still unbalanced? I read up on this a while back and I know it's possible, but not sure if it happens in reality.

If balanced, you could toss on this $10 converter at the source, and run as far as you need with xlr.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=387850&Q=&is=REG&A=details
 
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stef said:
Do converters make a balanced connection or is it still unbalanced? I read up on this a while back and I know it's possible, but not sure if it happens in reality.

If balanced, you could toss on this $10 converter at the source, and run as far as you need with xlr.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=387850&Q=&is=REG&A=details
Click to expand...


I use a Rode VideoMic on a boompole with an extension cord. The extension cord is an inch-thick, gold plated 1/8 jack that's a little over 25 feet long. It works magnificently well, I've never experienced any problems with audio quality loss or the like.
 
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Beatlesfan1225 said:
I use a Rode VideoMic on a boompole with an extension cord. The extension cord is an inch-thick, gold plated 1/8 jack that's a little over 25 feet long. It works magnificently well, I've never experienced any problems with audio quality loss or the like.
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You have a 25 foot cord that's an inch thick?! Is it a garden hose? Is your boom op the Hulk? :)

The noise should depend on the nearby signals. Unbalanced wires act as antennas for random signals, especially if they're near something like a power cord. If it's free of strong RF signals near the wire, you shouldn't get any added noise. But small amounts of static will even affect an XLR, but will greatly affect an unbalanced signal.

I'm mostly wondering if the XLR signal is done properly when sent into the converter. IIRC, it should fix one signal (Line A) at a certain bias, and the other line will be the actual voice signal (Line B), and the final signal will be B-A, and all of it will be wrapped by a shielded ground. That way, noise will get subtracted out since it'll be applied somewhat equally to both lines A and B. Of course, I might not remember correctly how it's done.

Maybe one of our resident sound pros could correct me.
 
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Beatlesfan1225 said:
The extension cord is an inch-thick, gold plated 1/8 jack that's a little over 25 feet long. It works magnificently well, I've never experienced any problems with audio quality loss or the like.
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While it is theoretically possible under perfect circumstances for what you're describing to work passably well, I'm sorry but I can't believe it works "magnificently well" or even passably well in most practical situations. The official maximum recommended length for an unbalanced cable is about 15ft (assuming no interference) but generally lengths greater than 5ft should be avoided. BTW, there is no audio benefit of gold plated connectors, although there might be a visual benefit (if you're into bling)!

stef said:
I'm mostly wondering if the XLR signal is done properly when sent into the converter. IIRC, it should fix one signal (Line A) at a certain bias, and the other line will be the actual voice signal (Line B), and the final signal will be B-A, and all of it will be wrapped by a shielded ground.
Click to expand...

Not quite but more importantly, don't fall into the trap of confusing a connector type with a signal transmission type! An XLR connector/cable can carry: An unbalanced mono signal, an unbalanced stereo signal or a balanced mono signal (it's also the connector used for AES digital audio signals but we'll ignore this for now). When we see an XLR connector we would normally expect it to be carrying a balanced mono signal but you can't take this for granted, especially if a connector converter has been used! By the looks of it, the B&H converter you linked to just converts a mini-jack connector to an XLR converter but it does not convert the unbalanced signal to a balanced one. If this is the case, there is no benefit whatsoever of this converter (compared to a standard unbalanced cable/connector) except in terms of having an XLR connector at the end of the cable to plug into an XLR socket. When buying a converter from an unbalanced connector/cable to an XLR connector make sure it's also converting the signal to a balanced signal!

For an understanding of the difference between balanced and unbalanced cables/connectors/signals see this thread.

G
 
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stef said:
You have a 25 foot cord that's an inch thick?! Is it a garden hose? Is your boom op the Hulk? :)
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:) It's one of many of the same cord that I use while professionally recording music in a studio. I just use it on the boom as well, and it works great. It certainly is very thick!

AudioPostExpert said:
While it is theoretically possible under perfect circumstances for what you're describing to work passably well, I'm sorry but I can't believe it works "magnificently well" or even passably well in most practical situations. The official maximum recommended length for an unbalanced cable is about 15ft (assuming no interference) but generally lengths greater than 5ft should be avoided. BTW, there is no audio benefit of gold plated connectors, although there might be a visual benefit (if you're into bling)!

G
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I would disagree, I spent a long period of time running tests when I first began this practice of using such a cord for my boom pole, because I also thought the cord may be way too long. However, I couldn't pick up any audible difference between using the mic plugged directly into my recorder, and having this massive cord in between the two, and that was when I brought it into my sound studio and used monitors on it.

So, it seems to work quite well. The long cord length is actually a benefit every so often. Last week we were shooting a scene where the characters were in a car, and the camera and crew were outside of the car. We just set up the boom on a stand right next to the gearbox out of sight, and then ran the cord all the way out to our sound guy. We probably used 20 feet of it there, and it was well used!

If there is any loss or detriment by using the cord, I've yet to actually hear it later on.
 
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Beatlesfan1225 said:
I would disagree...
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With whom, the entire professional audio recording industry, every article, paper or book ever written on the subject?

For the benefit of others: There is a chance that using a 25ft unbalanced cable for recording production sound when filming will give acceptable results depending on a number of factors including the recording equipment you're using, how noisy your recording environment is and how much radio frequency and electromagnetic interference is present. However, it's only a "chance"! So, unless you're willing to take the chance that much of your production sound could be noticeably degraded, run the very shortest unbalanced connections you can or far better still, run a balanced signal path which is orders of magnitude better at rejecting interference. By all means google "balanced audio signal vs unbalanced" if you're in anyway confused by some of the conflicting advice in this thread!

G
 
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