Indie Film Buy-In & Cost

CamVader

CamVader

So here's the question: what is the minimum buy-in to produce decent independent film today? I'll just start with something that has elements of what I have right now to be the one sacraficed. Remember, this is production costs relating to equipment.

DSLR camera: $700.00
Lenses: $1700.00
Dollies and sliders: $2000.00
Lighting:$1500.00
Sound: $1000.00
Stabilizers: $4000.00
Monitor: $550.00
Computer & software: $4000.00 (light)

Total: $15,450.00 and we still have a crap camera and sound issues.

Oy.
 
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If you're going true ultra low budget you've spent far too much on some things.
DSLR: $700
Vintage lenses: $500
Dollies/Sliders (DIY): $250
Lighting: $1500
Sound: $2000
Stabilizers: $1000
Z-Finder: $250
Computer with storage: $2500

That brings you to $8,700 and can do everything your kit can, and even has better sound.
 
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$50 + free shipping 1080p fixed lens, flash card camcorder
http://cgi.ebay.com/Insignia-NS-DV1...rofessional_Video_Cameras&hash=item4aad2befaf

Needs SD memory card.


$26 + free shipping shotgun mic w/ minijack
http://cgi.ebay.com/14-37-inch-Elec...470?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2564b7786e

$32 + free shipping digital voice recorder w/ external jack
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-RCA-VR5320R...301?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item588e9d7ead

$1 boom pole
http://www.dollartree.com/cleaning-...nges/Angel-Broom/212c259c259p297637/index.pro

DIY microphone shock mount.

Write screenplay on free Celtx http://celtx.com/
Edit video on Movie Maker
Edit audio on Free Audio Editor http://free-audio-editor.com/


Less than $130.

Write your story along simple three act structure,
- action is cheaper than adventure and more popular than horror,
- night time settings don't have to fool with daylight time/cloud issues but look pretty bad on "film"
- external daytime on light overcast days allows colorful shots without supplemental lighting
- internal shots force echo address issues
- utilize easy to access locations
- cars and parking lots work well
- normally available clothing/costumes
- found objects for props

- cast and crew of family and friends
- family and friends locations

EDIT: Whoops! Forgot the computer...
$190 Windows 7 w/ DVD burner. Problem is that 1080p is gonna bog this single core something ridiculous to the point of being a paperweight. You MIGHT could shoot in youtube quality resolution and edit that. Hardly festival circuit quality though - unless your sound is perfect, of course. ;)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Dell-Dimension-...0639389910?pt=Desktop_PCs&hash=item2312ceacd6

$550 + tax Intel i3 Point A - B NLE
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Gateway...uId=9999161300050076&childSku=2632034&count=1

* * * * *

$320 to $680 total.
 
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rayw said:
$50 + free shipping 1080p fixed lens, flash card camcorder
http://cgi.ebay.com/Insignia-NS-DV1...rofessional_Video_Cameras&hash=item4aad2befaf

Needs SD memory card.


$26 + free shipping shotgun mic w/ minijack
http://cgi.ebay.com/14-37-inch-Elec...470?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2564b7786e

$32 + free shipping digital voice recorder w/ external jack
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-RCA-VR5320R...301?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item588e9d7ead

$1 boom pole
http://www.dollartree.com/cleaning-...nges/Angel-Broom/212c259c259p297637/index.pro

DIY microphone shock mount.

Write screenplay on free Celtx http://celtx.com/
Edit video on Movie Maker
Edit audio on Free Audio Editor http://free-audio-editor.com/


Less than $130.

Write your story along simple three act structure,
- action is cheaper than adventure and more popular than horror,
- night time settings don't have to fool with daylight time/cloud issues but look pretty bad on "film"
- external daytime on light overcast days allows colorful shots without supplemental lighting
- internal shots force echo address issues
- utilize easy to access locations
- cars and parking lots work well
- normally available clothing/costumes
- found objects for props

- cast and crew of family and friends
- family and friends locations

EDIT: Whoops! Forgot the computer...
$190 Windows 7 w/ DVD burner. Problem is that 1080p is gonna bog this single core something ridiculous to the point of being a paperweight. You MIGHT could shoot in youtube quality resolution and edit that. Hardly festival circuit quality though - unless your sound is perfect, of course. ;)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Dell-Dimension-...0639389910?pt=Desktop_PCs&hash=item2312ceacd6

$550 + tax Intel i3 Point A - B NLE
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Gateway...uId=9999161300050076&childSku=2632034&count=1

* * * * *

$320 to $680 total.
Click to expand...


He said decent. There are big movies and TV shows using DSLRs today; Black Swan was shot in part on a 7D. True Blood is shot on the 5D. You can make a visually appealing movie on a DSLR, but a tiny cheap sensor like the camera you linked to will only work as a gimmick. If you want to copy Blair Witch, go ahead, but a DSLR can give footage visually appealing enough for a wide audience.

The aforementioned movie/TV show have great lighting, so I'd suggest at least going for small tungsten four light Arri-Fresnel kit. You can do pretty much any stationary shot you can think of with them. If you're trying a larger shot in motion, supplement your kit with work lights, china balls, and clamp lights from Home Depot.

Don't skimp on sound. Get a decent field recorder and at least a Rode NTG-3. Get a real boom pole, shock mount and blimp. Probably another mic or two as well depending on the situation. I'm not a sound guy, but good production sound will save you a ridiculous amount of time in post, as well as add to the quality of your film.

As for editing, if you truly have no money left there are students begging to get a credit as a feature film editor. That being said, you can get a computer good enough for basic editing for about $800. At least dual core, try to jack up the ram as much as you can afford. For storage, get an external eSATA dock that will allow you to plug in internal 3.5 inch drives. It's much more affordable than the people I see buying a bunch of pre-made external drives.
 
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SinEater said:
He said decent. There are big movies and TV shows using DSLRs today; Black Swan was shot in part on a 7D. True Blood is shot on the 5D. You can make a visually appealing movie on a DSLR, but a tiny cheap sensor like the camera you linked to will only work as a gimmick. If you want to copy Blair Witch, go ahead, but a DSLR can give footage visually appealing enough for a wide audience.
Click to expand...
http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/records/budgets.php

Wow. These are some pretty bad numbers.
http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/2010/WOLFM.php

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wolf_Man_(2009_film)
"Rotten Tomatoes reports that 32% of critics have given the film a positive review"

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0780653/technical
Camera
Panavision Panaflex Millennium XL, Panavision Primo Lenses
Film negative format (mm/video inches)
35 mm (Kodak Vision2 200T 5217, Vision3 500T 5219)


Well if that isn't an endorsement of "Just because you have Shakespeare's pen doesn't mean... " I don't know what is.


Point made, SE.
Since few were really jumping on board with CamVader's petition I just wanted to explore where it (near) absolutely begins at.

Funny you should bring up BLACK SWAN.
Aronofsky and his DP had discussed, debated and agreed on shooting much of BS in 16mm specifically to attain a fair bit of graineyness.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0947798/technical

http://www.thecinematographer.info/articles/42-matthew-libatique-black-swan.html

Really funny thing is for Nick's Super Summer Contest one of the stories I submitted was based on BS. Ha!

Hmm... what trouble can I get into... :cool:




PS: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0799934/
 
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@SinEater. Can you please describe your 2000 sound package? Please. It will help many of us get a better idea about sound equipment, that so many of us (like myself) don't know much about.
 
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DSLR camera: $700.00
Lenses: $300 (50mm f1.8, and you have money left for a vintage lens. Also, probably a 18-55 is included with your camera)
Dollies and sliders: $400. Get a tripod, and DIY like crazy.
Lighting:$200 (Also, DIY. Seriously, learn to DIY stuff and you'll cut your budgets in half)
Sound: $500
FORGET STABILIZERS. You would spend thousands, you would have to learn to use them...Use your hands, or at most a tripod or grip...That you DIY.
Monitor: $500.00 (Might need it. I'd get a Zfinder or something - Also, depends on the camera. Low/mid-end DSLRs don't output HD while recording, making a monitor pretty much useless)
Computer & software: $2500

Final Budget: $5100.00
And there is stuff in there that you might not use.
 
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This is a great thread. Camvader's budgeting is the kind of information I was really looking for. Now if we can take each line item and figure out what each person would like to buy for that equipment group, this forum will be more useful than a college film class.
 
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It was just a place to start and get everybody talking. I included tripod(s) in stabilization. Also, there's another consideration. Actors with experience can be on the judgmental side with equipment, so a lot of DIY stuff paints a picture for them. A great story and interesting characters can go a long way, though.

I'm loving the different angles and approaches.
 
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On sound:
You can get a usable field recorder in the $700 to $800 range, a decent mic (NTG-2 or similar) for about $300, a pretty good boom pole for $150 to $200, Headphones $100 or so (for usable), throw in a few bucks for cables, dead cat, etc... Gives you a decent, not great, but decent sound rig for the neighborhood of $1500. That's bare bones, just enough to get by. Alternatively, you could hire a soundman with all that gear and more for $150 a day for 10 days. Not gonna get an LA pro at that rate, but plenty of competent guys with gear on craigslist who would jump at that rate.
 
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Scrap the DSLR route... go with the Panasonic AF-100 ($4,500)
Scrap the stabilizers which is where you'd save that $4,000
For an external monitor... go with the SmallHD DP6 (which is amazing and has great resolution) for around $1000-$1300
Build your own dolly / tracks (for $300 you can have light-weight aluminum tubed tracks and a skateboard dolly)
Go with a sweet Cool Lights package for $1,000 (Their fluorescents burn sooo cool and have great output).
Go with a Rode NTG-3 which is a good, rugged, shotgun mic. Obviously you'd need more but this mic is a pretty good cheap mic.
Build your own computer for like $2500 and you'll be sitting goooodd


Just my 2 cents :)
 
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For me, a barebones kit would look something like this:

Panasonic GH2 w/kit lens (honestly, I'd go body-only, but no one seems to have body-only in stock, or a GH1 for $500 if your budget is even lower, if you can find one): $1,000
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._DMC_GH2K_K_Lumix_DMC_GH2_Digital_Camera.html

Vintage lenses: $500

Rode VideoMic Booming Kit (which comes with cables and boom pole): $169
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/757227-REG/Rode_VideoMic_Booming_Kit.html

Zoom H4N: $299
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/600761-REG/Zoom_H4N_H4n_Handy_Mobile_4_Track.html

An inexpensive shoulder mount, like this one: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00595L1I6/ for $80

DIY Dolly and other stabilizers: $200-$400

A reasonably good flourescent lighting kit for around $1200, with DIY reflectors, etc.

Build a decent computer with an i7 processor, lots of RAM, and a good video card for $1500 plus random parts I have lying around my house (like a 1TB hard drive, power supplies, and a case), or buy a basic gaming computer for $800. Use trial versions of software and give myself a 30-day deadline for post-production. :yes: Or find open source programs you can use instead (I think I've heard at least one person on these boards talk about a great Linux-based video editing program, and I know there are sound programs out there that are open source and reasonably powerful).

Total budget: ~$3750 to ~$5150

I'd spend the remaining $10k+ from the first example to pay my cast and crew and provide great catering.

I think the key, though, for getting into ultra-low-budget feature production for almost no money is that you need to tailor your script to the resources you have available. If we look at virtually any low-budget success story, the reason it was successful is that the person(s) making it knew exactly what they were capable of, what equipment/locations/people they could get access to, and what kind of time and money they could realistically devote to the project.
 
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DeJager said:
Scrap the DSLR route... go with the Panasonic AF-100 ($4,500)
Scrap the stabilizers which is where you'd save that $4,000
For an external monitor... go with the SmallHD DP6 (which is amazing and has great resolution) for around $1000-$1300
Build your own dolly / tracks (for $300 you can have light-weight aluminum tubed tracks and a skateboard dolly)
Go with a sweet Cool Lights package for $1,000 (Their fluorescents burn sooo cool and have great output).
Go with a Rode NTG-3 which is a good, rugged, shotgun mic. Obviously you'd need more but this mic is a pretty good cheap mic.
Build your own computer for like $2500 and you'll be sitting goooodd


Just my 2 cents :)
Click to expand...

Why spend $4500 on the AF-100, when you can buy a GH2 for less than 1/4 that price (with a lens) and have the exact same sensor? And a hackable camera that can do 4:2:2 color? I mean, the AF-100 has some features the GH2 is missing (like more options for frame rates), but unless you know you're going to use those features, I personally wouldn't spend the extra money.
 
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Camera: $2000 (used)
Lenses: $100 for a fish eye (used)
Dollies and sliders: (you're kidding, right? Look at all the stuff I have with wheels!)
Lighting:$100 (Hello Home Depot & Office Depot)
Sound: $250 (used)
Stabilizers: (you're jesting again!)
Monitor: $100 (used again)
Computer & software: $4000. Absolutely. Micro budget filmmakers cannot cut here--your film will be mostly made in the editing suite, with a Mac.
Sock-it-to-em-Wow! Script: Priceless.
 
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GuerrillaAngel said:
Camera: $2000 (used)
Lenses: $100 for a fish eye (used)
Dollies and sliders: (you're kidding, right? Look at all the stuff I have with wheels!)
Lighting:$100 (Hello Home Depot & Office Depot)
Sound: $250 (used)
Stabilizers: (you're jesting again!)
Monitor: $100 (used again)
Computer & software: $4000. Absolutely. Micro budget filmmakers cannot cut here--your film will be mostly made in the editing suite, with a Mac.
Sock-it-to-em-Wow! Script: Priceless.
Click to expand...

I don't feel dollies, sliders and stabilizers are asking too much. It all depends on the kind of movies you want to make. If I were going to spend a bunch of money feeding cast and crew (let's say I don't even pay them) for 15 to 20 days shooting a feature, hell yeah I'm going to budget in a dolly. I spent 1500 shooting this short film. 1200 went to the dolly. It was worth every penny.

http://www.falsestudios.com/clips/flow/bl.html
best,
Aveek
 
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