How Much for Unknown Talent?

Us Sinners actors worked for low salary and did a excellent job. They were great. But, one let it slip that they'd have probably worked for free.

With unknown talent that you're going to work 10 - 14 full days (not in a row, mostly on weekends) what's the going micro-budget rate? Not including transportation and food, that's a given.

Also, the same scenario for a cinematographer who has his own camera?
 
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I shot a feature over 11 full days, and paid only the SAG actors (a contract requirement). The others worked for free. All of the crew worked for free. Obviously the production covered transportation/hotel and food and other expenses.

I'd say ask them if they'll work for free. If not, what's the minimum they will work? Try to accommodate them if you really want them in the film. If you can't afford them, then move on.
 
Most indie no/micro budget actors (no matter the experience) will work for either free, or really cheap. If you specify upfront that it's a micro budget film and you can't afford to pay them, they will agree or they won't. No harm no foul.

If they know you have a budget (as in, it's obvious), I suggest you pay at least your leads. There are two ways you can do this...pay them $100 a day (that's the minimum when you're working with talented, experienced individuals), or you pay them for the project (ie. $500 for the entire film).

Those are two rates that I'm always happy to accept. :) I wish more worked that way. Most indie actors have 9-5's, so don't let them make you feel like they're starving. :)

Honestly, with my experience and resume, I really should be getting paid for everything I do...but I know that's not possible with the companies I know...so I work pro bono still. It's all good...we're all working to get somewhere together, and when you work on a good film--for free or not--you'll be climbing the ladder together. Plus you'll be gaining chops, and a stronger resume and demo material.
 
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Us Sinners actors worked for low salary and did a excellent job. They were great. But, one let it slip that they'd have probably worked for free.

With unknown talent that you're going to work 10 - 14 full days (not in a row, mostly on weekends) what's the going micro-budget rate? Not including transportation and food, that's a given.

Also, the same scenario for a cinematographer who has his own camera?

Unknown actors, the rate is a big fat ZERO (but be generous with craft services).

I paid my cinematographer (with camera) $200 a day.
 
Unknown actors, the rate is a big fat ZERO (but be generous with craft services).

I paid my cinematographer (with camera) $200 a day.

lol. Nice. Sad but true.

It's truly sad that no matter how much experience you have...it's all about being known or unknown. Man this industry sucks sometimes. Keep treating your actors like they are worth a big fat zero, and they may stop working for you.

If you had a decent budget on your film (let's say 40+k), and you didn't pay me a dime because I'm 'unknown', I'd turn down the role on principle.
 
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lol. Nice. Sad but true.

It's truly sad that no matter how much experience you have...it's all about being known or unknown. Man this industry sucks sometimes. Keep treating your actors like they are worth a big fat zero, and they may stop working for you.

If you had a decent budget on your film (let's say 40+k), and you didn't pay me a dime because I'm 'unknown', I'd turn down the role on principle.



If I had that much budget, the principals would get paid (not much, maybe $100 a day). I had a budget of $1000 a day for a 5 day shoot. At that budget level, no budget to pay anybody except technical leads.
 
$40

I just shot a full length feature film which I shot, weekends only, over the course of a year! I paid each actor $40 a day and that covered their transportation as well. This was shot non union and in Los Angeles... if you're shooting outside LA, I would say you could get away with not paying them anything.
 
lol. Nice. Sad but true.

It's truly sad that no matter how much experience you have...it's all about being known or unknown. Man this industry sucks sometimes. Keep treating your actors like they are worth a big fat zero, and they may stop working for you.

If you had a decent budget on your film (let's say 40+k), and you didn't pay me a dime because I'm 'unknown', I'd turn down the role on principle.

Yeah... I'd have to agree. At some level it really comes down to an issue of respect. It's one thing to have big dreams and ambitions but little money and it's another thing to try to take advantage of talent simply because you feel they're desperate and can be easily victimized. It's a fine line.

As mentioned earlier in this post, if you just communicate up front that you have little resources but are an eager young filmmaker, then each actor can make their own decision (based on factors like the quality of your script, the commitment of time required and your skill level as an auteur).

Either way.... don't ever let your lack of resources slow you down or deter you from shooting! The talent is out there!
 
I just shot a full length feature film which I shot, weekends only, over the course of a year!

It took you a year to shoot a feature? Did you shoot every weekend? Or were they scattered greatly? Typically, if you're moving at a decent clip, you should be able to knock out a 90 page script, on weekends only, in 3-5 months. Or am I just whistling Dixie here...that's usually how long it takes us, and we have pretty decent production value for the budget.

May I ask why it took you a year?
 
Typically, if you're moving at a decent clip, you should be able to knock out a 90 page script, on weekends only, in 3-5 months.

My latest took 2 years to shoot!

Stuff happens. In my case, I shot a few scenes and cut together a trailer, then spent 5 months trying to raise funding. I live in a tiny, poor, rural area, so there are few locally who can afford to invest. I had some outside contacts who were interested, then the economy imploded and everybody panicked and backed out.

Where I live it rains 9 months out of the year. By then summer had come, so I had a brief window in which to shoot. Several of my principal actors live in Portland, which is 2 hours away. I decided to go ahead and get as much as I could during the good weather, but due to people's schedule conflicts I was limited to a few weekends. Then the rains hit again and I went back to trying to raise funding. But the economy didn't get any better.

Meanwhile my male lead lost his job and his marriage fell apart, and his new job required him to work evenings and weekends, while his co-stars worked regular day jobs, so scheduling became even more difficult. The next summer rolled around and I'd saved enough money to continue shooting the rest of the exteriors, which we barely managed to do. I also had no crew by then because my local volunteers discovered out how much work it was and stopped showing up, and I couldn't afford to hire replacements out of Portland. I also had to let my production manager go because I could no longer afford to pay her salary.

About a quarter of the movie takes place in a tavern. Because of the time required and complexity of lighting and shooting those scenes, there was absolutely no way of shooting in an operating business. We had previously arranged to use a closed cafe space that was part of a hotel. They had already given us permission, as long as we carried liability (we did, of course). I was ready to move into the space and redress it as a tavern in order to pick up the remaining scenes, when the hotel called and informed me that their corporate owners had withdrawn their permission (we hadn't been told they needed to clear it with them). Insurance or no, they weren't even willing to discuss the matter.

Since the corporation didn't actually own the space - just leased it - I contacted the actual property owner to see if he could pull any strings. He said he might be able to, but was at that point embroiled in a huge real estate deal which monopolized his time. Several more months went by while I waited to hear from him, meanwhile looking for another suitable location.

A co-worker happened to hear about my search and mentioned that a tavern in an even smaller town a few miles away had closed down. She didn't know why, for how long, or even who owned the place. I went and peeked through the windows. There were no signs explaining the closure, no contact number, no "for sale" sign, nothing. But the place looked ideal for my needs.

I managed to trace down the owner (via MySpace!). He said they'd closed down for the winter and would re-open in the spring. He had no problem with us shooting there, but his reopen date was only a month and a half away. My male lead, meanwhile, had gotten another job that freed him up on weekends again - that was the good news. The bad news was, my female lead from Portland had landed a paying role in another feature that was shooting that very month, and her hair was a completely different color and style for the role. She would be free again in the spring, but the location was NG by then.

We shot around her, and I told her we'd shoot all of her stuff in one day if she could just get away that long. She agreed, and for once I got lucky and both leads had a day free at the same time! We purchased a wig to try and match her hair to previously shot scenes, and shot close-ups and green screen material so the other actors with whom she was supposed to appear could be cut in/matted in later. We managed to get everything we needed that required seeing her face, then I found a body double and put her in the wig and costume to shoot the remainder. We struck the tavern set the night before they re-opened for business.

Sorry for the length of this!!! This is the first time I've written all this out and got carried away.

Why, you may ask, would I continue with a project that was so obviously cursed? Cuz I'm a unique brand of stupid. :)
 
Well 2001...when it rains it pours...no pun intended. That stinks. Life happens, I understand this. The best you can do is plan ahead (get all of your interiors during the rainy months). Schedule as far ahead of time as possible. Get backup locations for all of your major (outside party) locations.

Trust me, our movies don't purr like a kitten either...we make due. The honest question I'm asking some of you to ask yourself is, are you doing a good job with pre-production and are you really into finishing your movie in a reasonable time? If you can answer yes to both of those, then there is no reason (unless everything falls to pieces like a cursed Terry Gilliam film) that you don't finish a feature in 5 months or less.

I know I know, take all the time you need. I'm just saying, if you're serious about making films, and you plan accordingly, there's no reason it should take years to make a film. And to be quite honest, it's not good for the film...actors drop out, dye their hair, seasons change, tress are cut down, houses move...errr...ummm...you get my point. It's not good for anybody when the film drags on.
 
Trust me, it wasn't intended to work out that way. I know you don't know me, but I've been making films for 32 years now, including 3 features. It's never gone like this before. Ever. My ducks were in a row, it just happened to be duck hunting season. :)

Thing is, I had much money invested in the project when we began and, at a certain point, it became an issue of "take a loss and have nothing" or "press on and hope for the best". Rightly or wrongly, I chose the latter.

Hindsight, I probably wouldn't do it again.
 
I considered (and was on the crew of one that got derailed) shooting a feature weekends only, but have decided I'd never even attempt it. 3 to 5 months is too long to try and keep a cast and crew together, Too long to try and keep people's haricuts looking the same, the seasons may change for exteriors, etc... When I do a feature it's gonna be 10 to 14 straight days.
 
I considered (and was on the crew of one that got derailed) shooting a feature weekends only, but have decided I'd never even attempt it. 3 to 5 months is too long to try and keep a cast and crew together, Too long to try and keep people's haricuts looking the same, the seasons may change for exteriors, etc... When I do a feature it's gonna be 10 to 14 straight days.

Good luck getting cast and crew to take off 14 days (or find people without jobs). That alone is a feat.

There are always headaches in film schedules...as long as you have a solid cast and crew, and a detailed schedule creator/enforcer, setting up a 3-5 month weekend dealeo isn't any more difficult than organizing a straight shoot.

And as far as hair...as long as the difference isn't huge, no one is going to care...4 months ain't that long. If someone's hair grows like crazy, send them to the barber.

And be sure to take a lot of continuity shots (which you should be doing anyway).

And lastly...schedule your interiors and exteriors according to the season and potential whether change.

The same problems arise on a 4 month shoot as they do on a straight shoot...we're not talking about years here...

So...so...so THERE!

LOL. I'm kidding. :) Ah man...that was fun.
 
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It's true, there are issues with both methods for sure.

I've also decided there's no way I'm going to attempt a feature with a budget of less than about 40K, so it would be mostly semi-professionals. I had a feature script 2/3 done, and put it down. Decided I didn't want to spend the next year year trying to find financing, so doing another self financed 10 minute short (1 day shoot) instead. Gonna keep building the short resume, and not dive into a feature until I have the money to do it right (though 40K is still of course micro-budget).
 
Don't expect to make your money back with a 40K film...not saying you won't...it's just much harder than shooting a solid 10K flick, screening it, and selling it.

40K is a good number for a micro-budget film...you can get some nice production value out of that if you don't squander your monies.

Good luck man.
 
Us Sinners actors worked for low salary and did a excellent job. They were great. But, one let it slip that they'd have probably worked for free.

With unknown talent that you're going to work 10 - 14 full days (not in a row, mostly on weekends) what's the going micro-budget rate? Not including transportation and food, that's a given.

Also, the same scenario for a cinematographer who has his own camera?

mate,

I'd say it would be your negotiation skills and the kind of poeple you work with..

some don't complain while others will work and get paid (what they were promised) and still complain about the payment. this happened with me.

regards,
Ace.Inc1
 
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