How do I get cast and crew to go a little crazy with me?

H

harmonica44

You always here stories about how filmmakers resorted to ridiculous methods to get a movie made. One off the top of my head was when the director of the French Connection, William Friedkin, had his stunt driver, drive at 98 mph through 26 blocks of New York traffic that was not blocked off at all. Not that I want to do any dangerous felony like that all of course. Just an example.

But on my microbudgets, it would really help if the cast and crew just wanted to go a little crazy. Not real crazy like that, but just a little. Like let's say I want an actor to walk through a crosswalk full of crossing people, then all of a sudden have him yell, scream, and act like he is being shot and hit the ground. We get footage of the crowdspeople jumping back in shock, wondering what the heck is happening, and we get their reaction on film. Of course their faces will be out of focus and the person being shot in focus, but you still see them get back out of the way, of the crazy guy acting like he is being shot to pieces. Then we add the bullet and blood effects in post.

But the actors I have met so far, do not really want to do anything like that. Same with crew. I've talked to a few DPs so far, but so far they have lost interest in projects, because I want to do a scene shoot in a much shorter amount of time cause no one wants to give out their locations for more than a few hours. It seems DPs find this insulting, and won't accept the reality of the situation. But I mean, if they were a DP on a big Hollywood movie and they contested the director's planning all the time, they would be fired.

I don't know if I have the right to compare but I think in microbudget filmmaking we all need to make compromises and get our hands more dirty. I mean you can't make an omelet without breaking eggs, as the old expression goes. I mean The French Connection takes home best picture and best director, but a lot of people don't want to go even a little crazy for the sake of art. Do a lot of you filmmakers find the same problems?
 
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I'd say you're either going to need a relly good screenplay, something that your cast and crew really believe in, or you're going to have to pay them to do as they're told.

Either way, don't ask anybody to do anything illegal or immoral. You might not get too far if you do.
 
Okay thanks. And I am going to pay them, with the next cast and crew I get. I was just practicing and getting my feet wet before, but I will pay now for the next one. Hopefully that will work. And a good script. But I still feel I may be contested, but perhaps a little money changes everything?
 
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you have to remember that the french connection was shot in the early 70's and the world
was a lot less complicated then and you could get away with a stunt like that.

now days you would have 100 iphones capturing what you are doing and find yourself trying
to explain to a magistrate what the hell you were thinking.

also it is the right of any actor or crew to refuse to do what THEY think is unsafe or
dangerous.

just because you are making a movie you do not get a free pass to put people at risk.
 
Depends on your actor. Crew might be more skeptical, but I've worked with actors who I know would do that, possibly with very little encouragement
 
I'll be honest, now a days I would really suggest against doing anything in public that might look like violence, in particular. People are really over clocked as far as it's concerned, and before you know it you could end up with a riot on your hand as people run from some variation of self-nvented "terrorist/Mass gunman". Leave causing panic in the streets to the real terrorists and mass shooters, and get a few extras.
 
But the actors I have met so far, do not really want to do anything like that. Same with crew. I've talked to a few DPs so far, but so far they have lost interest in projects, because I want to do a scene shoot in a much shorter amount of time cause no one wants to give out their locations for more than a few hours. It seems DPs find this insulting, and won't accept the reality of the situation. But I mean, if they were a DP on a big Hollywood movie and they contested the director's planning all the time, they would be fired.
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On a big Hollywood movie the director wouldn't do the planning. The director has more important duties and there are others who are supposed to do those roles, like the location manager, the First AD, the producer and so on.

Look at it from another perspective. You ask someone to do a job. It usually takes 4 hours to do the job, but you demand it to be done in 2 hours. They tell you it cannot be done. You again demand they do it. They refuse as they believe it is impossible within your demanded time frame. They leave or you fire them.

When you bring on a DP, you're bringing on a department head. As a director, you really need to learn to listen to the advice of your department heads. If you cannot do this, you've either chosen the wrong person for this role or you are unable to perform your duties correctly as the captain of the ship. Your job is to come up with a vision and communicate and supervise that vision to your department heads so they can plan accordingly and execute that plan during production.

The last thing to learn is that some people won't work under certain circumstances. It's obvious that your DP isn't willing to work under the circumstance you need. You have two choices. A). Change the circumstances or B). Find a replacement.

It seems DPs find this insulting, and won't accept the reality of the situation.
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Have you considered that it isn't them that has a problem with accepting the reality of the situation?

I don't know if I have the right to compare but I think in microbudget filmmaking we all need to make compromises and get our hands more dirty. I mean you can't make an omelet without breaking eggs, as the old expression goes.
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This happens on low budget, but you still need to be able to do the possible. Some people aren't going to be willing to put their name if they think the work will come out substandard.

Either way, don't ask anybody to do anything illegal or immoral. You might not get too far if you do.
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Illegal maybe. Going guerrilla is illegal and cast and crew still do it, so maybe there are lines people are willing to cross.

Immoral is subjective to peoples particular point of view.

Depends on your actor. Crew might be more skeptical, but I've worked with actors who I know would do that, possibly with very little encouragement
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I was just practicing and getting my feet wet before, but I will pay now for the next one. Hopefully that will work. And a good script. But I still feel I may be contested, but perhaps a little money changes everything?
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If you feel you're going to be contested now, a little bit of money isn't really going to change much. Lots of planning, preparation and leadership skills can tip the balance in your favor. Working on charm and persuasion skills can be a very valuable feather in your cap.
 
Being a leader, as any good Director should, will help you. Having a great script, and cast and crew who are willing and want to help you create this movie will also help you.

But, accepting reality also goes a long way. Being realistic does not mean saying 'oh well, if I can't take one of my actors into a crowded mall and have him pretend to be shot in front of everyone, I simply can't make a movie'.

Write within your means. Interesting camera moves and dramatic lighting and shallow (or deep) focus, and intense sound design makes a good movie great. But you have to have a good movie first. You can make a good movie with one location and a cast of three. And not just a 'boring' drama piece. Please watch 'The Disappearance of Alice Creed' if you need to see an example. There was a total of three cast, one main location where 80% of the movie takes place, and one other location where the final scene of the movie takes place. It's a really great example of a movie that's really well written and acted, and action-packed, without being expensive. You could make the same movie very cheaply (the budget was <$1mil).

As far as DPs not wanting to spend more than a few hours in a location, then perhaps you're not really taking a look at what you're asking them to do. When you hire a DP, you're generally hiring them to design the lighting and the shots and create something visually spectacular. How can we do that if we don't have the time, and the people we're working with don't even understand why we need the time? How many shots are you scheduling for that 2-hour time period?
 
Alcove Audio said:
One uncompleted short does not qualify as practice.......
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Not true! of course it does help more if you get to the end but look at Tarantino's first try "My Best Friend's Birthday" was not a good movie but he learned from it!
Practice make perfect (its not just about that tought) lol
i registered just to respond to your post :P

And btw OP i think its a great idea!
but when you make a movie.. just will over skill! you need dedicated people that are passionate otherwise you wont make it

:director: Peace :lol:
 
I don't think there is an answer to your question because everybody is different and there are millions of other unknown variables.


But also, just based on the example you gave of the guy getting shot in a crowded crosswalk, I don't think you'll get the reactions you want from the crowd. There's a big difference between people hearing actual gunshots and then seeing someone fall to the ground near them bleeding as they're getting "shot to pieces," versus some crazy guy just holding his chest and yelling as he falls. The people near him certainly might take an extra step or two to walk around him, but mostly you're going to get a bunch of weird looks like "what the hell is this guy doing?"
 
moonshieldmedia said:
But also, just based on the example you gave of the guy getting shot in a crowded crosswalk, I don't think you'll get the reactions you want from the crowd. There's a big difference between people hearing actual gunshots and then seeing someone fall to the ground near them bleeding as they're getting "shot to pieces," versus some crazy guy just holding his chest and yelling as he falls. The people near him certainly might take an extra step or two to walk around him, but mostly you're going to get a bunch of weird looks like "what the hell is this guy doing?"
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What's the worst that could happen?

Devils Advocate time: What would happen if you decide that you need some sound effect to get a reaction from the crowd. Your actor falls down shot and people react. The old guy near him keels over clutching his chest from a heart attack. He later dies.

Could the police bring you (and perhaps your cast/crew) up on charges? What's the penalty for second degree or third degree manslaughter where you live? Is jail time a possibility?

While this is all unlikely, there are certain responsibilities you have as a producer/director/someone in charge to be smart and consider the repercussions of choices you make, especially when they can effect the cast, crew and other uninvolved civilians.

I'm not saying don't do it, I'm saying be smart about it. In the above scenario, you could have one guy with his hand on the sidewalk scream "BANG BANG" where your actor on the crossing falls down dead. Combined with the camera, people are unlikely (but still could) get scared.
 
Sounds like you're painting yourself into an impossible corner... if the other people in the shot are just normal random people from everyday life...you'll have ONE chance to get it and the set up time will be really long.. what if there's nobody about?? What if someone trys to help out and blocks all your shot? What if what if... Just loads of variables.

If you're paying cast and crew why not pay for extras and shoot on a small scale in a controlled environment. You can then inter cut with a wider more "real life" cross walk shot.

As has been said if cast and crew think the idea isn't going to work... you need to listen to them... It's never gonna work if the cast and crew aren't feeling the idea.

Present them the concept and see what ideas they have to get the shot... and scrap the idea of doing something crazy.. because it sounds crazy!!
 
What you have to remember is the real reason they're working for you in the first place. They're not getting paid enough to make it worth their time so they are doing it for showreel material. So while you think DPs should be willing to compromise they are only going to compromise so far. If they're not able to do good work under the conditions you impose then what's the point of them turning up?

Conversation I once had with a DP that surprised me at the time but makes a lot of sense when you think about it:
ME: I know you want to shoot the whole film at night but I can't ask my cast and crew to work all night for two weeks when I'm not paying them.
DP: If you were paying me I'd happily shoot during the day. Because what do I care? I'm getting paid. If I'm doing this for free it's got to be great or what's the point? Lets shoot it at night.

As far as doing crazy stuff goes, don't.

Way back when I was making my first feature we did everything by the books. We had $20 million dollars worth of public liability insurance (less expensive than you might think), reams of documentation from local councils for permits etc and we still almost fucked up one day when we decided to go guerilla.

It was at the end of a long day. We were shooting some car stuff and we'd choosen to do it on a backroad in the middle of nowhere where for 3 hours we didn't see a single car pass. Problem was our lead actress didn't have a drivers license. We shot around her a bit, put a double in the car but after a couple hourse of futzing we still didn't have the shots I thought I'd need in the edit. I asked the actress if she could drive. It was her car after all. She replied: "Drive!? I can drift!"

So we attach the camera to the hood of the car and tell her just to drive down to the end of a perfectly straight road and come back. She drives down. Stops. Tries to turn the car. It stalls. And behind her another car appears. She's not paying attention, backs straight towards it and I'm watching from between my fingers. The second car swerves into the ditch, toots it's horn and goes on its way.

It hadn't seemed much of a risk but if the other driver hadn't been so alert I would suddenly have been in charge of an accident, where I'd attached a camera to a car on a public road and sent a unlicensed driver barrelling down the road with it. I would have been entirely liable legally and morally for all damages and injuries.

Never ever do something that is not 100% safe. It might seem cool and guerilla but if someone gets hurt or you end up in court "cool and guerilla" just turns into feeling like a moron.

I don't believe the The French Connection story. If it's true then Friedkin is a dick. Sounds like a publicity department beat up that's such good a story no one feels like denying it.

As far as the specific situation you're talking about I think it has the potential to be dangerous and you're going to get a shit shot out of it because the passerby reactions will be terrible. It's possible to do that properly and cheaply if YOU are willing to put in the time. It just takes a hell of a lot of effort but, hey, it's your film and if your not willing to kill yourself making it (figuratively speaking of course) then you probably shouldn't be doing it in the first.
 
Dom D said:
I don't believe the The French Connection story. If it's true then Friedkin is a dick. Sounds like a publicity department beat up that's such good a story no one feels like denying it.
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It's partly true, and partly hype. It's true that they shot a high speed POV through the windshield with a stunt driver at the wheel, racing down a street that had not been closed off. But it was not a busy street at all (under the train trestle), and the driver was one of the best in the world. NOT recommending anyone do this -- and no professional would think about doing it today.

During another scene in that movie, a civilian car slipped through the blocked off side street and the stunt man smashed into it. That shot is in the movie.
 
Yeah that's true. I don't want to do the shooting in a cross walk. I just don't have a good place for it in the story and can do something else. One thing I really wanted to do was have a SWAT officer repel from the roof off a building of a parking structure, into a level of the of structure. I would do it on a building where their is another parking lot underneath, so we wouldn't have to close off a public street which costs money. If their is a parking lot below the repelling stuntman, then it's private property, and no need to close the public sidewalk nearby.

But this probably won't happen of course, and I will end up having to do it green screen or something. Especially since I don't want anyone to get hurt. As far as car accidents go, I had one while shooting. The actor was just suppose to drive normally and do a normal drive and talk scene, while obeying traffic. But during rehearsal she accidentally crashed the car! Hope that won't happen again.
 
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