how can i get the best audio?

[Amrohourani]

i recently bought an ntg 2, an xlr mic, and i have a nikon d7000 with a 1/8 input, so i've looked at xlr to mini jack input but i heard it takes the low impedance to a high impedance, so i did some research and found out that i could use a preamp but my friends told me i could use that adapter and plug it in a zoom h1 and it will act as a preamp and i can use it as a recorder or record directly to the camera, (consedering a low budget) what else can i do or use to get around that problem( other than xlr recorders(zoomh4n ect..))

thank you

 

[AcousticAl]

other than xlr recorders(zoomh4n ect..)

Well, I hate to break it to you, but...

The best thing you can do for a mic with XLR output is to use a mixer or recorder with XLR input. Yes, you could get an adapter, but it is going to change the impedence. The 1/8" input on your camera, on the Zoom H1, on any other cheap recorder or camcorder, is unbalanced, so the adapter is taking the balanced XLR connection and converting it to an unbalanced signal that feeds both left and right input channels on the camera or recorder.

The other challenge: recording sound into your DSLR is the worst thing you can do for your sound. DSLR audio circuits are poorly-designed and poorly-constructed and will not yield good results. An external recorder is highly recommended.

There are some capable recorders that are cheaper than the H4n that offer XLR inputs. Look at the DR-60D and the DR-40, both from TASCAM. They're also both in the $175-200 range (US dollars). The DR-60D also has a dedicated output for your DSLR so that you have a copy of the signal recorded in-camera for reference in post.

Be aware, though, that the NTG-2 has a lower output level than some other mics in its price range. The pre-amps on any budget recorder may not be able to give you lots of clean gain (meaning that getting the sound to proper recording levels will have a little added noise). If you're still in the return window for the mic, you might exchange it for an Audio-Technica AT-875, which has a hotter output that plays nicer with budget recorders.

Assuming you have the mic and recorder properly set, the one crucial part in all of this is proper placement of the mic. The closer, the better, and getting the mic within 20" of the speaker is going to determine the quality of the sound that's recorded. 10" is better. Just remember that half the distance from mic to speaker = four times the amplitude.

Last, you didn't mention headphones, but you need headphones: good headphones. Recording sound without actively monitoring through headphones is like shooting your footage without ever looking at the viewfinder/LCD monitor.

 

[Amrohourani]

Well, I hate to break it to you, but...

The best thing you can do for a mic with XLR output is to use a mixer or recorder with XLR input. Yes, you could get an adapter, but it is going to change the impedence. The 1/8" input on your camera, on the Zoom H1, on any other cheap recorder or camcorder, is unbalanced, so the adapter is taking the balanced XLR connection and converting it to an unbalanced signal that feeds both left and right input channels on the camera or recorder.

The other challenge: recording sound into your DSLR is the worst thing you can do for your sound. DSLR audio circuits are poorly-designed and poorly-constructed and will not yield good results. An external recorder is highly recommended.

There are some capable recorders that are cheaper than the H4n that offer XLR inputs. Look at the DR-60D and the DR-40, both from TASCAM. They're also both in the $175-200 range (US dollars). The DR-60D also has a dedicated output for your DSLR so that you have a copy of the signal recorded in-camera for reference in post.

Be aware, though, that the NTG-2 has a lower output level than some other mics in its price range. The pre-amps on any budget recorder may not be able to give you lots of clean gain (meaning that getting the sound to proper recording levels will have a little added noise). If you're still in the return window for the mic, you might exchange it for an Audio-Technica AT-875, which has a hotter output that plays nicer with budget recorders.

Assuming you have the mic and recorder properly set, the one crucial part in all of this is proper placement of the mic. The closer, the better, and getting the mic within 20" of the speaker is going to determine the quality of the sound that's recorded. 10" is better. Just remember that half the distance from mic to speaker = four times the amplitude.

Last, you didn't mention headphones, but you need headphones: good headphones. Recording sound without actively monitoring through headphones is like shooting your footage without ever looking at the viewfinder/LCD monitor.

I have got a sound mixer with xlr inputs and outputs, which I can use a mini jack to output to my camera, but the problem is, i cant really carry a mixer around on set, i though a handy recorder would be more portable and easier to carry.
I cant really replace or exchange the mic, but I am considering buying an xlr recorder, probably from the ones you have mentioned.... about mic distance, I'm actually shooting a short film and its not really easy to keep that kind of distance but i will try my best,
headphones, of course I do have headphones with 1/8 jack that i could connect to a handy recorder or my mixer....

another thing, my friend has a di box that I can use, I dont really now if it can do the job of a preamp or not, he has also told me that i could use an xlr to mini jack adapter, connect to a zoom h1n, and then output a cable to my camera, he says it can do the job of a preamp and bring down the impedance, is it true?

 

[AcousticAl]

I have got a sound mixer with xlr inputs and outputs, which I can use a mini jack to output to my camera, but the problem is, i cant really carry a mixer around on set, i though a handy recorder would be more portable and easier to carry.

about mic distance, I'm actually shooting a short film and its not really easy to keep that kind of distance but i will try my best,

Then you ought to look at adding a crew member to help you. Running camera and sound all by yourself means that you cannot devote full attention to either one, and both suffer. Or, you devote most of your attention to the camera and neglect the audio and still end up with sound that isn't usable.

Mic placement is crucial, and if you're planning to put the mic on top of your camera and call it a day, or to place it on a stand outside of the frame, you are not going to get any dialog recording that will be of use to you. The mic must be kept on-axis, meaning that the person speaking must be within the angle of response in front of the mic. If the actor moves, the mic must move as well. It must also be kept as close as possible. The further the mic is from the source, the more it must be amplified in recording and that means that more of the background noises that you want to avoid will end up in the recording. Getting the mic close increases the signal-to-noise ratio, allowing for little of the background interference to be recorded.

headphones, of course I do have headphones with 1/8 jack that i could connect to a handy recorder or my mixer....

If your recorder has only a headphone output, that's what will feed the camera and you'll be left with no way to monitor your sound. You can get a splitter, but that degrades the signal.

another thing, my friend has a di box that I can use, I dont really now if it can do the job of a preamp or not, he has also told me that i could use an xlr to mini jack adapter, connect to a zoom h1n, and then output a cable to my camera, he says it can do the job of a preamp and bring down the impedance, is it true?

A DI box is not a pre-amp, and it's terribly wrong for this application. It takes an unbalanced, 1/4" input from an instrument or line-level source and converts it to a balanced, mic-level signal over XLR.

And regarding using the H1 as a pre-amp to feed the camera, again you're screwing with the signal flow in ways that will reduce the quality of your sound. If you use the DR-60D, you get a decent recording AND a feed to the camera AND headphone monitoring all at the same time. But you really, really need to recruit someone who knows how properly to boom a mic and run a recorder and just let the sound operate independent of the camera.

 

[Amrohourani]

Then you ought to look at adding a crew member to help you. Running camera and sound all by yourself means that you cannot devote full attention to either one, and both suffer. Or, you devote most of your attention to the camera and neglect the audio and still end up with sound that isn't usable.

Mic placement is crucial, and if you're planning to put the mic on top of your camera and call it a day, or to place it on a stand outside of the frame, you are not going to get any dialog recording that will be of use to you. The mic must be kept on-axis, meaning that the person speaking must be within the angle of response in front of the mic. If the actor moves, the mic must move as well. It must also be kept as close as possible. The further the mic is from the source, the more it must be amplified in recording and that means that more of the background noises that you want to avoid will end up in the recording. Getting the mic close increases the signal-to-noise ratio, allowing for little of the background interference to be recorded.



If your recorder has only a headphone output, that's what will feed the camera and you'll be left with no way to monitor your sound. You can get a splitter, but that degrades the signal.





A DI box is not a pre-amp, and it's terribly wrong for this application. It takes an unbalanced, 1/4" input from an instrument or line-level source and converts it to a balanced, mic-level signal over XLR.

And regarding using the H1 as a pre-amp to feed the camera, again you're screwing with the signal flow in ways that will reduce the quality of your sound. If you use the DR-60D, you get a decent recording AND a feed to the camera AND headphone monitoring all at the same time. But you really, really need to recruit someone who knows how properly to boom a mic and run a recorder and just let the sound operate independent of the camera.

So the mic should be always directed to the person speaking and close as possible, i do have other assistants to help and in charge of sound.

Cant I use the output on my d7000 to monitor audio ? I guess I'll by tascam d-40 ,considering its cheap, does it have two outputs? I do actually have a boom operator and he is good at keeping the mic as close as possible and directed to the speakers mouth ... btw, i can also use the recorder to sync up sound later in post.

 

[Sweetie]

It depends on what your "Best Audio" means to you.

Amazon has a great deal on a Tascam DR-60D. I think it was $179. Decent preamps and may work great for just the situation you're talking about.

 

[Alcove Audio]

How can I get the best audio?

You get the "best" audio by hiring a professional production sound team - PSM, Boom-Op & Audio Assistant, at least US$1,000 per day - and by doing a complete audio post - dialog editors, Foley walkers and recorders, sound effects editors and qualified rerecording mixers in a certified mix facility - at least US$...... well, you get the idea.

Now, getting passable sound on a budget...

You have someone to "swing" the boom; that's a step in the right direction. Get the Tascam DR-40 (it's less cumbersome for your boom-op to carry than the DR-60d) and a really good set of headphones (Sony MDR-7506 - US$100) for him/her to wear. Your camera audio will be adequate for the purpose of syncing the audio from the DR-40. Be sure to slate every shot visually and verbally, and be sure to keep detailed audio and video logs - these will save you HOURS in post.

Just a tip - Your boom-op should be aiming the mic at the notch at the base of the throat; you get what is coming out of the actors mouth plus the chest resonance do you get a fuller sound.

 

[Amrohourani]

It depends on what your "Best Audio" means to you.

Amazon has a great deal on a Tascam DR-60D. I think it was $179. Decent preamps and may work great for just the situation you're talking about.

The dr-60D is kind of a big recorder, I though a more handy recorder would do the job such as the tascam Dr-40

 

[Sweetie]

It's... ugly, fairly heavy, though, from experience the pre-amps on it are better than the dr-40. I assumed he wanted the best sound, not the lightest recorder... of course the sound captured won't compare to the better, more expensive brands, it's a decent start.

The DR-60D also seems to be designed to be on the tripod with a DSLR camera screwed into it.