Hiring a producer and cinematographer

[trueindie]

So I put up an ad for a producer and a DP for the film I want to make. I got a lot of responses. I found a couple of really good DPs. But they're a little more expensive than I thought. But I think I can still work one of them in. Amongst the producers there was only one guy who seemed like he'd done a lot.

But here's my problem. I really don't know anything about these people. And my general experience so far with filmmakers has been that most of us, including myself, don't really know much, but we overpromise, and things get screwed up on set because things aren't delivered. I definitely don't want that to happen on a set with 15 to 20k of my money being spent.

So today I sent an email to the producer asking him for references. He replied saying that he'd be willing to talk more at length, but since most filmmakers work freelance, I shouldn't expect to get too many people with references. Does that sound reasonable to anybody?

Also, how should I really go about picking the right person as the producer and DP? What kind of questions should I really ask to figure out if what they're telling me is reliable or not?

It's a bit easier with the DPs. The DPs I liked were the ones who weren't trying to sell themselves, but started asking me questions and telling me what they needed from me.

Since this is the first time I 'm really doing this and trying to hire at least semi professional producer and DP, I was just wondering if anybody had thoughts or advice on how I should do it.

 

[Alcove Audio]

I'll start by guessing that these folks are (relatively) local to you.

Go out and have a few drinks; hang out with them - yes, both at the same time. You're building a team, and you should start building that team feeling.


BTW, if they're honest as well as talented they should have no qualms about giving you a few references.

 

[jax_rox]

I'm not usually required to give out references - in saying that, however, 99% of the work I get is based on either the trust that a long credit list and obvious experience brings, or from recommendations by others I've worked for or with.

The DP should be talking to you about the visual story - what moods he thinks, what visual ideas he has about the script.
You should also ask questions of the DP: Most of my ideas as a DP are backed up by the story and script and what I think would work well within it. Feel free to ask 'why'. I often get asked by Directors 'why' I think what I do - why should we shoot on RED/Alexa/Film, why should we shoot on steadicam/handheld/dolly etc.
The DP should be able to answer such questions with ease.

 

[Sweetie]

Amongst the producers there was only one guy who seemed like he'd done a lot.

So today I sent an email to the producer asking him for references. He replied saying that he'd be willing to talk more at length, but since most filmmakers work freelance, I shouldn't expect to get too many people with references. Does that sound reasonable to anybody?

Also, how should I really go about picking the right person as the producer and DP? What kind of questions should I really ask to figure out if what they're telling me is reliable or not?

The role of a DP is fairly clear cut with very little wiggle room where responsibilities lie. Look at their show reel. If you like what they show, then ask their directors what they're like to work with. Pros and cons. Determine if they're the right fit for you. It's really that simple. You're better off with a good fit than worrying about a few dollars in price.

For the producer: I see people looking for a producer all the time. The truth of it is most people don't know what kind of producer they're looking for, what each kind of producer does and so on.

When an advertiser isn't clear in what type of producer they're after and/or aren't clear in what they're responsible for, I think you're going to filter most experienced producers out. You're mostly going to attract new producers or those who mostly are in-adept in doing their job properly. Occasionally you may get lucky and find a good producer in-between jobs. A lot of the good ones are working their own projects and aren't interested in yours. [A lot of projects that don't know what duties the producer needs to fill are usually at a point where there are a lot of errors already done that doom a project to fail, like attaching wrong talent for the wrong reasons and so on]

A small story. I recently responded to a poorly written advert looking for a producer (little did they know, they were asking for an executive producer). I simply asked for more information to see if I was interested. After talking with them for less than 5 minutes, it was clear to me that their course of action was wrong. Are you possibly in the same boat?

To answer your question above, references shouldn't be too hard to provide, especially for an experienced producer unless they've always done such a poor job, that no one is willing to provide a positive reference for them. As a producer, I personally prefer to find out who they are, who they know who I already know and give them a reference they already trust.

Whether they're the right person? To know that, you also need to know what kind of person you need to compliment the people you already have in place. Is everyone super organized already? Then you don't need someone to put structure in place. Do you already have sales orientated people on your team? No, you'll probably need to consider that trait important to have in your producer. Do you need someone who is intimately aware of each and every step of the production process and needs to push and push your current people?

Questions to ask if to see if someone is reliable? There aren't a set amount of correct questions to ask as most situations are different. It's something that you have to learn with experience. After a while you'll be able to spot the flighty people a mile away.

One piece of experience I can give you. In my opinion, lawyers and producers are similar in how you should choose the right one. Would you pick a lawyer who will be your friend, or do you pick your lawyer depending on how ruthless and cutthroat s/he is and whether they'll use any tactic to win for you? Too many people pick a producer they like and want to go drinking with, rather than a producer who will tell you where the production is weak and where things need to be fixed and do whatever is needed to ensure the end result is a profitable experience for all involved.

Good luck in your search.

 

[trueindie]

Thanks for the responses everybody.

Sweetie, thanks for that long response. Much appreciated. I think you may be correct. I'm probably one of those people who put a vague non-specific ad up, which filtered out the good producers.

One piece of experience I can give you. In my opinion, lawyers and producers are similar in how you should choose the right one. Would you pick a lawyer who will be your friend, or do you pick your lawyer depending on how ruthless and cutthroat s/he is and whether they'll use any tactic to win for you?

I'm not sure I've met this person yet, amongst any of the people I've interviewed, someone who will try to win for me. Almost all of them act like they're doing me a favor, bringing their vast knowledge in to help lil' ole me, while 'taking the summer off.' It's a little crazy. Actually I'm a bit stunned to be honest.

I'm probably doing something wrong in how I posted the ad. I'm beginning to think more and more that I need to do a lot of the producing myself. I'm afraid, if I become too reliant on some 'flakey' filmmaker (no offense to any filmmaker. I'm including myself in this group. I like to put myself down on a regular basis), things are going to end up not being done properly.

Good luck in your search.

Thank you. Again many thanks to everyone for their responses. Much appreciated.

 

[Sweetie]

I'm not sure I've met this person yet, amongst any of the people I've interviewed, someone who will try to win for me. Almost all of them act like they're doing me a favor, bringing their vast knowledge in to help lil' ole me, while 'taking the summer off.' It's a little crazy. Actually I'm a bit stunned to be honest.

I'm probably doing something wrong in how I posted the ad. I'm beginning to think more and more that I need to do a lot of the producing myself. I'm afraid, if I become too reliant on some 'flakey' filmmaker (no offense to any filmmaker. I'm including myself in this group. I like to put myself down on a regular basis), things are going to end up not being done properly.

By the sound of your reply, you're looking for a creative and business producer to run your production from beginning to end. Someone who can develop and mold your script into a master piece and bring it to market and sell it to make a profit.

There is rarely going to be a person who is going to be more motivated to make your project a success than you, very much similar to you thinking your baby is the most beautiful baby in the world.

That they're doing you a favor, they could be. In my opinion, good quality producers are in short supply in my area of the world. Anyone with half a brain can get a project in the can (if that's what you're after, then just pick a good First AD and a good Production Manager instead) On top of that, most people that are looking for a producer fall into one of the following:
1). Writers who have their pet project. Their friends tell him/her that it's the best thing since sliced bread, but no one will buy the script to make.
2). Actors (or director) who wants to be discovered. They pick up the pen, write a role for themselves and build a story around it.
3). Some project that has little to no commercial value.

If you're looking for someone who will truly try to win for you, you need to come up with a package that attracts the right person. If you have a commercially viable project, to get a producer on the same time, they typically need enough skin in the game or a big fat pay check with performance bonuses to keep them motivated. Good producers are good business people. Hourly pay checks aren't that motivating to most of us.

Once again, good luck.

 

[trueindie]

Thank you for the reply! I think I'm getting what you're saying.

I do have an elaborate plan for this project (edit: not that elaborate, but complicated enough for someone like me), and the marketing will begin before shooting does. I'm not sure I, or this project, fall into any of your categories 1, 2 & 3. But I understand why you may think so. I sometimes think the same of other people's projects .

But there's no point in me talking at length about my plans. I'm not sure it will be perceived as much more than bluster at this time. But I will surely come back for more advice as I go along.

Thanks again Sweetie for your more than 2 cents. I'm going to seriously look for a first AD / production manager.

 

[Sweetie]

I do have an elaborate plan for this project (edit: not that elaborate, but complicated enough for someone like me), and the marketing will begin before shooting does. I'm not sure I, or this project, fall into any of your categories 1, 2 & 3. But I understand why you may think so. I sometimes think the same of other people's projects .

I do like that you're thinking about marketing while you're in development and/or pre-production.

I think I wasn't clear. I'm not saying your project falls into either of those categories. I don't know enough to know either way. It's just some of the pitfalls that I'm aware of. It sounds like you've got a head on you, just use it well.

I'm not quite sure what your project is, though I'd first talk to a few people to work out if there is a market (and in what markets and windows) for what you're planning on making and what would be a likely minimum return and potential returns for that project and the deliverables required. Also find out if there are minimum quality and commercial levels of your attachments required to hit those returns.

But there's no point in me talking at length about my plans. I'm not sure it will be perceived as much more than bluster at this time. But I will surely come back for more advice as I go along.

Thanks again Sweetie for your more than 2 cents. I'm going to seriously look for a first AD / production manager.

When you're ready to ask, please feel free.

 

[RaymondLeggs]

Why not DP yourself?

 

[trueindie]

Why not DP yourself?

That's a damn good question. And that is something I'm seriously considering.

Problem is that I like shooting with two cameras. It cut's my shoot day in half, especially in a conversation piece. The lighting becomes a bit of a challenge with two cameras, but I can live with any artistic deficiency. So the main problem is that I can't look through the eyepiece of two cameras at the same time while evaluating the performance of the actors. It's going to be impossible for me to do that, I think.

So what I'm really considering is getting two camera operators, and getting a lot of PAs who will help with the light set up.

But yeah. It's a good question. Something I've been leaning more and more towards of late.

 

[jax_rox]

With a good Gaffer, G&E, and some great Camera ops/assistants, as well as some extensive planning in pre-pro, you could DP yourself.

I personally am not a fan of the DP/Director - you end up focussed on one or the other; the performance or the frame, it can be very difficult to focus on both, especially if you're also trying to operate.