Credits on old films, how were they done?

[Blue Blaze Irregular]

Hi, i'm new to these forums, it's very nice to be here, seems like there's an absolute wealth of information, and i'm looking forward to learning from you guys and also contributing what i can.

The question i have is about credits on old films and how they were made in a time without the sophisticated computer technology we have today. I'm making films at the moment using old Video 8 cameras. I really like the VHS type quality.

I'm editing my footage on Final Cut, and i'm looking to add credits, but i want the type to be consistent with the 80's style of the film stock. I don't want them to look clean and crisp, but old and a bit rough around the edges.

I've done a lot of searching around, but i can't find any info on this at all.

For example, how would a credit sequences like this be created, for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px8PKZTWLgE

Did they use computers? And if so, what was used before computers? (something like this say (not the animation, but the type: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeTRcssdEjE

Also, in regards to subtitles does anyone know how old films were subtitled and what sort of technology they would have used?

Any help at all is greatly appreciated!

 

[2001 Productions]

There were a number of techniques employed in the pre-computer days, but typically they involved a graphic artist who created the titles by hand on card stock. Sometimes the cards were decorated and just shot straight. Other times the titles were typeset against black or on glass and were superimposed during the optical printing process.

The opening scroll for the original Star Wars films was, for example, done on glass and filmed by a motion control camera in front of a blue screen, which was replaced by the star field.

 

[Blue Blaze Irregular]

Thanks a lot, that's really interesting stuff.

I think my best bet might be creating cards on letterpress and filming them. I was thinking about possibly experimenting with projection too.

Thanks again.

 

[wheatgrinder]

so diy home made ideas for 8mm film credits..

can double exposure work. Shoot the credits roll, white text on black background for first expose, the reload that same reel and expose what ever images you want in the background of your credits.. maybe projected..

 

[directorik]

I cannot remember what this printing process is called but the
text was printed as a negative - clear text on black background
that was backlit.

I did it dozens of times when shooting super 8 and 16mm in the
days before the computer. This is one sheet we used for a credit
roll. The single credit cards were bigger but I can’t find any of
those to show.

wheat, that’s exactly the way we had to do it in the super 8 days.
Few super 8 cameras allowed backwinding for double exposure, but
the ones that did were great. In those cases I didn’t use the
above method, I used white letters on a black card. The trick was
to light it well. I made many mistakes when learning - you need to
make sure the black disappears. Too many times I exposed to the
black card and you could see it so I finally learned to light for
the white letters. More difficult to get the proper exposure, but
it works.

 

[ngoforth]

Kodalith

Did they use computers? And if so, what was used before computers? (something like this say (...

Those title were probably produced using Kodalith or a similar graphic arts film, and then backlit through a red filter. Litho films produce(d) an extreme black and white negative - just jet black or clear, no grays. The process would have been: create title cards with black print on a white bg, photograph those on litho film (stills), develop, then re-photograph with a motion picture camera, backlit (with a colored gel if wanted).

Litho film is getting rare. I don't think Kodalith is made anymore. Places to look would be http://www.freestylephoto.biz or maybe http://www.ultrafineonline.com/ulhicoorlifi.html -- in any case your search terms would be 'kodalith' 'litho film', 'graphic arts film' and maybe 'ortho film' (it may still be used in graphic arts applications - it's main function).

But I suspect there's a way to do this in FCP (in the original films the titles would have been crisp and steady, by the way) - Create white on black titles and key with a strong color. Overexpose a bit with levels and add a little Gaussian blur to give the diffused effect I saw in the clip. You could add some defects, scratches, etc if it makes you feel better.

 

[2001 Productions]

I made many mistakes when learning - you need to
make sure the black disappears. Too many times I exposed to the
black card and you could see it so I finally learned to light for
the white letters.

Ha! I did exactly the same thing! As a 14 year-old with zero photographic experience I just used the S-8 camera's built-in light meter, then couldn't figure out why my letters were blown out against a muddy gray bg.

 

[wheatgrinder]

I swear, someday Im going to buy one of those super 8s I see at goodwill and shot something, just to do it..

By the way DirectoRick, who\what is Hymie?

 

[directorik]

By the way DirectoRick, who\what is Hymie?

I have always named the creatures I made during my days in make-up
efx. Hymie is a little “chest burster” first built for my short
film “Horror Brunch”. When I made a feature of the same name I
used that little monster again.

[QT]http://www.darkcrimes.com/movies/Hymie.mp4[/QT]

 

[2001 Productions]

I swear, someday Im going to buy one of those super 8s I see at goodwill and shot something, just to do it..

Hey wheat, if you're ever up in my neck of the woods, I own two Super-8 cameras that are in working order (at least they were when I stuck them in the attic) you are welcome to borrow. I also have a few rolls of Super-8 film you can have. The stuff is absolutely ANCIENT - left over from my first feature in 1989 - but has been refrigerated constantly, so might still be usable. Interesting experiment, if nothing else.

 

[wheatgrinder]

DirectoRick,
that was awesome, I love the BTS and was glad to see the FINAL PRODUCT in the end.

2001,
great offer.,
Ill write some way to use 8mm footage in my next project.. any chance a bit of EXPERTISE could come along with the camera?

 

[2001 Productions]

I'll see if I can dig some up.