Canon 5d mark 3 vs Canon Legria XA10 vs ???

D

dlmade

Hey guys, so i already have a semi profesional camcoder, but want to upgrade to make short films for festivals and maybe independent feature, so i was wondering if you can maybe suggest which one is better
the 5d mark 3 is $3,450 for just the body
where as Canon Legria XA10 is $2,100 with two wireless mic's, a handbag and spare battery
or maybe you can suggest what can be better
note i will have so save up and borrow for either so not like i can buy a RED camera
Thank you,
 
Sort by date Sort by votes
If you're up for a wait I would also consider the Black Magic Cinema (or the *new* Production) Camera. It compares to the 5D from what I've seen.

Personally I would look to the 5D over the Legria because of the lens choices, but I'm not quite yet at a budget level where I can seriously consider these, so my personal research has not been intense as of yet
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
If you really wanna do festivals and features you HAVE TO get your audio off the [expletive] camera.
So the Canon Legria XA10 XLR inputs are... beyond practical logic. IDK why they even bother. Maybe to satisfy some ignorant market demand. Highschoolers?

Of the two choices - the 5D.

However, you're likely much better off buying a Canon DSLR w/ >18megapixel rez + a good audio set up, often equal to the price of the camera.



Consider:
Option A - AU$3k camera + AU$0k external audio
or
Option B - AU$1k camera + AU$1k lenses + AU$1k external audio

Which gear package has the greater technical potential of producing a festival or feature worthy film product?
Hmm... ?

B!
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0 Downvote
I use a half-cr@ppy little Sanyo Xacti HD1010 with a 1/2.5" (5.76mm x 4.29mm) CMOS sensor.
Compare that with the Canon XA10's smaller 1/3" (4.8mm x 3.8mm) sensor and the Canon 5D's whopping 35mm (36mm x 24mm) sensor.

image_sensor_size.gif


RelativeSensorSizes.jpg


DSLR-Sensor-Sizes.jpg


However, beyond peurile sensor size measuring is understanding how the image collected on a small or large sensor is compressed by both codec and chroma subsampling.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling

Both the XA10 and the 5D, and even my half-cr@ppy Xacti 1010, have less than perfect 4:2:0 chroma subsampling because of that compromising H.264/MPEG-4 AVCHD codec.


Now I want to warn/educate you that YOU CAN'T TECH YOUR WAY OUT OF A CR@PPY FILM!
Shakespeare's pen and Spielberg's camera are NOT going to save your @ss.

Look CLOSELY at the image quality in these finalist short films: http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=47367
Note that SEVERAL of these finalists, inescapably using far more superior equipment than I am, have the same image issues as I occasionally have: http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?p=314484#post314484

SO... !
What matters the most?
Camera quality?
Image quality?
Sensor size?
Codec?
Chroma subsampling rates?
Lens selection?
f-stops?
Miniplug or XLR jack microphones?
Rode VideoMic vs. NTG-1/2/3?
Preamps?
Shop lights vs. pro lighting?

Nope.

None of that sh!t matters.

Pretty much it's your ability to write, direct, and produce.
And then you gotta seriously consider that marketing and distribution trump product, because...

20120325FilmitAndTheyWillCome.png


You may also find this useful: http://philipbloom.net/2011/07/09/video-review-of-the-canon-xa-10-xf100-and-xf105/
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0 Downvote
LOL. You gotta love rayw's passion and he's right on. At the end of the day it's all about your story and your execution. We've all seen some amazing stuff done on an iPhone and some straight up unwatchable crap done on film. Your primary job is to tell a story. I have personally enjoyed some amazing fireside stories with my Grnadmother more so than some mega buck blockbusters. Manage what you have power/control over - and that is your story and how you tell it...you know, basically what rawy said.

Now on to your question - I have a 60D and a Vixia (I believe that's what they call the Legria here in the States) HF G10. Both are good tools and have their place. As with all things, both have their pluses and minuses.

The DSLR craze suggests that you go the way of DOF management and interchangeable lenses. Which is cool and all but besides the additional costs (you gotta buy lenses to change them and other stuff to make a stills camera into a working video acquisition device) and additional work (DOF needs to be understood to pull off properly) DSLR footage can suffer some softness issues (especially when you're messing with kit lenses) and can be a challenge for run-and-gun and event work if you don't know what you're doing. But boy does their footage look beautiful. The one thing to think of here is additional cost.

The Vixia/Legria is a proper video acquisition device right out of the box. Sharp, beautiful pictures with very rich colors. They come with a waveform monitor, zebras, false color and other really powerful tools (not to mention you have manual control over the feature that really matter). Here you have a fixed lens but it's very decent glass and is built for run-and-gun type work. This camera will limit you in some aspects of the creative process (DOF may not be the best) but nothing that will hurt your story telling capabilities. DOF is a cinematographic tool used in the syntax and grammar of story telling. I don't think one should employ it simply because they can - like everything in a good story there is a time and a place for it. No interchangeable lenses? OK but you have a pretty decent zoom lens.

Pluses and minuses - like I said.

Pick the option that will allow you to tell your stories now and save your hard earned cash for something bigger and better later (as you learn on the job - so to speak). Oh and as for the BMCC - yeah it starts off at a really decent price but the overall cost on that bad boy adds up FAST - from gear to managing your footage. We all would love to shoot 4K but most of us have no idea what to do with that kind of footage and how to manage it. Work your way up to it.

Listen to what rawy said and keep that in mind as you responsibly research the best camera for you...for your story right now.

I hope this helped.

Sam
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
XA10 not as hot as you may imagine...

Hi all, first post so big hullo :)
I've a 5D MKIII, mainly use it for stills but the video I've shot with it is very nice. I also recently bought the XA10 filmakers kit from Ted's and it's a dog of a camera. I don't know if I got a lemon or what.
- The autofocus & facetracking is seriously flakey, total hit or miss stuff. One example from a vid I shot recently the presenter filled a good portion of centre-frame yet the AF decided that instead it should focus on an inanimate object in bottom-left of frame.
- Focus in general is pretty iffy. Whole scenes just go soft as if nothing is really in focus for no explicable reason. One recent example is a great one... had a lock-off on the presenter, focus was acceptable. Needed to do a dissolve for a 'here's one we prepared earlier' type thing so presenter changed outfit, I swapped around the prop in centre frame, shot the post dissolve piece just a few minutes later. Light was basically the same (natural, exterior, overcast), camera hadn't moved or had settings changed etc etc yet the post-dissolve footage was all 'soft' or almost grainy with no true focus. Only thing that had happened was camera had been powered down & then back up.
Problem is that you don't notice these issues until you've got the footage up on a big screen to edit.
The camera also seems incapable of coping with strong natural light if even just normal levels of contrast are present. Highlights just blow-out big-time as I said even just in situations that I would describe as normal exterior light.
The quality of the audio from the bluetooth mics that comes with the kit is pretty dodgey too. Becomes very muddy if there are any unwanted external sounds, even just quiet background noise like normal suburbia. It's like they 'flood' and muffle the presenter. I've a set of Sony bluetooth mics & their quality is massively superior.
Worst part now is that Ted's won't give me a refund on the camera & Canon after having it in service for a month insist there is nothing wrong with the camera & their only advice was to not use any settings except auto. Yeap, that's right Canon... I paid 2k for a feature-rich camera so I can't use anything but P&S right?
So now I've got to take Ted's to consumer affairs/fair trading to try & get my money back for a faulty camera.
In short... be aware that there are faulty XA10's out there (my story isn't unique) and that you likely won't get any support from Canon if you have a problem with the camera. I had a similar scenario as this with a 1DMkIII I owned that suffered with the widely reported AF problems & Canon just refused to acknowledge the problem leaving me with a dud of a camera.
Anyhows... sorry to be such a bring-down for my first post but thought the feedback may be handy.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Hey, thanks mate your feedback is really appreciated I actually wanted to get that package it's 2,000 and you get 2 mics, bag spate batteries
But I am now just gonna focus with my camcorder and look into other options
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I recently went to a Chinese film fest in London where one of the shorts I'd worked on was showing. I was really impressed by one of the other shorts which was beautifully shot on a 5D MkII. Turns out the DoP was Oscar nominated (for something different).

The DoP said he could get that kind of footage on an iPhone because it is not the camera, rather the techniques. He gave us all some fantastic pointers (some which are really easy) and indicated that skill is far more important than camera. Frankly, a decent DSLR, a couple of lenses etc... can get great footage so just buy a decent one and you'll be fine. I use a VG10 and a used one is a great price and after the pointers I received, I know it will do everything I need.

What was really interesting was how well the footage blew up to a big screen. However, it wasn't the camera, rather it was his skill level and the problems we had were due to our lower skill levels, not the kit and I know what to do for the next short (a little too late for the one in post...)

So my advice would be to get a half-decent DSLR (a used one is fine) or a VG10 / 20 (used), a couple of lenses and some skill. Get someone to talk to you about what you need to do and do it because the skill component is far more important than the price tag on the piece of kit.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0 Downvote
dlmade said:
Hey, thanks mate your feedback is really appreciated I actually wanted to get that package it's 2,000 and you get 2 mics, bag spate batteries
But I am now just gonna focus with my camcorder and look into other options
Click to expand...

Yeah, look the battery they give you as an extra is a second low capacity battery so pretty pointless. The mics are not as good as the Sony ones (cheap through B&H don't pay Sony Au prices!!!)
The thing I regret now is not searching first for 'XA10 problems' on Google. I just searched for reviews which only ever seems to show the positive stuff.
Worth noting too that I put a review up on Canon Australias page of the XA10 & I mentioned the problems & they deleted the review so the same thing may have happened to other negative reviews. Nothing like censorship.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
gorillaonabike said:
The DoP said he could get that kind of footage on an iPhone because it is not the camera, rather the techniques. He gave us all some fantastic pointers (some which are really easy) and indicated that skill is far more important than camera... I use a VG10 and a used one is a great price and after the pointers I received, I know it will do everything I need.

What was really interesting was how well the footage blew up to a big screen. However, it wasn't the camera, rather it was his skill level and the problems we had were due to our lower skill levels, not the kit and I know what to do for the next short (a little too late for the one in post...)
Click to expand...
Well... !
Don't be a tease!
SHARE!

What are some of the techniques? :yes:
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top