Cameras and sound equipment

S

slow_haste

Hello, since this is my first post, just a quick background, I'm in high school, and have decided to work on a film project with another guy from my school. He previously attempted a (disastrous) school project, but we decided to make this film on our own time, and our terms. I'm writing the script. Anyway, I was planning on using a Samsung HMX-100 to film this. It's not the best, but I figured we'd make do considering it's our first project. The problem I've ran into, is that it doesn't have a way to use an external microphone. And audio is like one the most important things. We want this to come off better than "some kids screwing around with a camera".

I've come into an unusual amount of Christmas money this year, and I found an HV-20 for a good price. But I don't want to spend all that money on something I'm not sure of how it will turn out. But at the same time, I want good audio. So is there a way I could record decent audio without plugging in a shotgun mic? I've heard of digital recorders, but it seems like a lot of work syncing up the audio and video in the editing process, and I'm not sure how that set-up would work. So, what can I do?
 
Sort by date Sort by votes
Quality production sound is about getting a decent microphone as close to the actors as possible. The sound from the microphone should be captured by a digital audio recorder if you do not have audio inputs on your camera.

Your audio quality will depend entirely upon the person swinging the boom to which the mic is affixed. If s/he is good at the job of boom-op, you will have a chance at good sound; if s/he sucks at the job of boom-op your sound will suck.

The rest is just technology versus budget. If you give us a budget we can point you in the right direction, and you may even want to use the search function and do some research by reading a few of the dozens of threads that have already discussed this.

Syncing audio to picture has been done since talkies first appeared on the scene. As you will have a guide track (camera sound) the job is incredibly easy, especially if you have access to software like PluralEyes.

You may want to check out my blog, that will get you started on the road to decent production sound.

http://www.myspace.com/alcoveaudio/blog
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Bob, I just read this on your blog.
Shotgun Mic (outdoors) - $250
Cardioid Condensor Mic (indoors) - $250

Cant I use shotgunmic for indoors too?

Also,I am a beginner.So please guide me completely though the process of recording sound.
Please suggest me the equipment I should be having(please suggest the least expensive one's) and the process on how sound is recorded.Thanks.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
A very basic entry level production sound kit would be in the $500 to $1k range.

Tascam DR-100 - $270

Battery Pack - $60 (x2 - $120)

The DR-100MkII ($325?) is due out in the spring. Supposedly the low volume levels and other problems have been resolved, but that's all scuttlebutt and not yet confirmed. The DR-40 ($170) came out recently, but reportedly has the same problems as the original DR-100. The Roland R-26 has just come out, but not much in the way of reliable field reports have come in as of yet.

For shotgun mics the Audio-Technica AT875 and Rode NTG-1 are passable micro-budget choices. The need for phantom power will drain batteries on recorders quickly which is why I recommend battery packs. The AT897 and NTG-2 supply their own phantom power via battery but have lower volume output levels than their unpowered cousins.

For cardioid condensers the sE Electronics SE1A ($160) and the Rode NT-5 are also usable mics, but the are cardioid polar pattern, not the hypercardioid polar pattern preferred for production sound work. Yes, you can use a shotgun indoors, but it takes a good deal of skill and set prep (sound blankets, carpeting, etc.) to avoid the classic indie hollow "roomy" reverberant sound.

You will also need a boom-pole, shock-mount, wind protection and cables. Many shotgun mics are sold in kits with all of these items but the cables, and you can DIY the boom-pole and shock-mount if you're handy.


The "process" is not easily explained. Boom technique is getting the mic in as close as possible without getting in the frame or casting shadows, and constantly adjusting the aim towards the actor who is speaking, all the while remaining silent while avoiding lights, props and cables. The technical side is mostly gain-staging; getting the hottest possible signal with the lowest self noise possible.

You may find the following article interesting:

http://www.colinhartonline.com/?p=336
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I think it might cost more to use a shotgun in doors than a hypercardioid. I'm guessing you want to buy a shotgun only, to save money. But in order to use one indoors you have to buy stands to hang the blankets on, and get all those blankets and carpeting. You can make those DIY C stands, from hardware store parts, but I am to try this, so can not confirm how good they are. Still the price it costs to buy those parts and the blankets might end up costing you just as much as it would to buy a few hundred dollar hypercardioid, so why not just get that and avoid the blankets, carpeting and stands. Especially if you are shooting on locations, where sometimes the owners might not be comfortable with you turning their places inside out to get the sound you need. Now I am no sound expert at my experience level, so I am of course with all do respect, just guessing based on my own pricing decisions.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Thanks a lot ,Bob.
What's the use of the condensers?


Also, where I am going to shoot,its my college campus.So noise level is quite high.Is it advisible to use boom-op or dubbing?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0 Downvote
Worth noting that if you are a student you can get pluraleyes or dual eyes at really good pricing, from toolfarm if I recall correctly.
Pluraleyes is strictly speaking the better option but dualeyes has it's charms, especially simplistic work flow. The main difference is pluraleyes works inside your editor whereas dualeyes works outside and prepares video files with the recorded sound attached giving files as though you had captured sound in cam. They both are available with a month's trial so you could theoretically get two months of work out of them and get a feel of which one works for you.

As for 'the use of the condensors' I believe that is just shorthand for 'condensor microphones', the better quality type of microphone.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I use a shotgun indoors, just listen to the headphones for echo... bring a thick blanket for your talent to stand on if it's too bad. Use a slate if your'e recording audio... make sure you can read it in camera and see the clapper close... and make sure you can hear both the announcement of the scene/shot and the clapper closing in the audio.

This way, as you import, you label the scene/shot numbers on the clip along with whatever short description you're using ( "2-5a John Mid") ... then label the audio with the announced shot/scene ("2-5a audio"). Line up the spike in the audio waveform where the clapper closed with the frame of the video where the clapper closed (lock and link/merge them if the software allows). It's lined up and ready to roll.

Syntheyes automates this process by matching the in camera audio to the recorded audio and linking them based on that match... much faster, but something you can still do manually if you give yourself time to do it.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
punee said:
What's the use of the condensers?
Click to expand...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microphones

It's been vetted by some very serious professionals, so the info is pretty good. READ IT ALL - it's basic.

punee said:
Also, where I am going to shoot,its my college campus.So noise level is quite high. Is it advisible to use boom-op or dubbing?
Click to expand...

ALWAYS use a boom-op. You always plan on capturing sound is if you will NEVER have the chance to do ADR (Automated Dialog Replacement).

-*-*-*-*-*-*

As I said:

you may want to use the search function and do some research by reading a few of the dozens of threads that have already discussed this.
Click to expand...

http://www.indietalk.com/search.php?searchid=2244377


Your projects will only look as good as they sound, because "Sound is half of the experience."


I do strongly suggest that you hire a production sound mixer and an audio post pro like myself at least once. Trust me on this; when you watch a pro in action you learn more in an hour than you do reading a couple of books and a hundred threads.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I know absolutely nothing about sound recording. All in all, will a digital recorder work, or should I upgrade to a camera that can use a shotgun mike? And if I use a recorder, does it plug into the camera, or is it separate, and then you plug it into the computer and sync the video and audio together?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
slow_haste said:
I know absolutely nothing about sound recording. All in all, will a digital recorder work, or should I upgrade to a camera that can use a shotgun mike? And if I use a recorder, does it plug into the camera, or is it separate, and then you plug it into the computer and sync the video and audio together?
Click to expand...

With all due respects, this is why you should make it a priority to read tutorials and helpful articles on audio before you make any major decisions about purchases. That way you can make an informed decision rather than a stab in the dark. There is just as much to getting good audio as there is to getting good picture. Myself, Alcove and others have ponted you in the direction of some useful learning resources on the subject.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
slow_haste said:
I know absolutely nothing about sound recording.
Click to expand...

Maybe you should just find yourself an audio guy? Places like Mandy.com are a good place to find new sound guys with some decent kit looking for projects to get involved with, often for just their expenses, to gain experience.
At the very least you could nose around their kit and watch how they work and get some idea of what's involved before taking the next step.
Don't be fooled into thinking getting good sound is just a case of dropping a few hundred on a mic. By the time you have assembled even basic half decent kit you could of hired a sound guy for a handful of films and he/she t least will be able to use the gear to good effect. Having a boom in your hand doesn't make you a sound guy I'm afraid.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top