New Computer - Advice Required...

[mad_hatter]

Hi all. I’m looking for some computer buying advice.

In general, I know what I’m doing, and I’m already pretty certain that all the systems I’m considering will run the software I plan on using (I intend to sign up to Adobe CC very soon). I’m just looking for more general advice and opinions on what others would do. Of course, I’ll be using my PC primarily for photo and video editing.


Below are a few options from Acer:

http://www.ebuyer.com/516660-acer-aspire-xc-sff-desktop-dt-sp5ek-017
i5, 8GB RAM, 1TB, Intel HD Graphics
Small form factor, No USB3, No real expansion possibilities
£400

http://www.ebuyer.com/516662-acer-aspire-xc-desktop-dt-sp5ek-021
i7, 8GB RAM, 2TB, Nvidia GT620 Graphics
Small form factor, No USB3, No real expansion possibilities
£600

http://www.ebuyer.com/516664-acer-aspire-tc-desktop-dt-spzek-008
i7 (4th Gen), 8GB RAM, 2TB, Nvidia GT625 Graphics
Full tower, USB3, Possibility to install SSD
£650


Or perhaps a Dell….

http://www.dell.com/uk/p/inspiron-660/pd
i5, 8GB RAM, 2TB, Nvidia GT620 Graphics
Full tower, USB3, Possibility to install SSD
£500


Do I need i7? I already know I don’t, but would I feel the benefit of it? I like the idea of installing an SSD, but I also like the idea of a small PC, sat on my desk. So the trade-off is between having a small PC, sat on the desk, with no SSD; or a larger PC, under the desk, with an SSD installed. What to do? Again, I know the graphics will have limited effect on video editing, but is there much difference between the options listed? I’m in two minds about the USB3 – if I’m attaching an external HDD, would the extra speed be noticeable?

Also, can anybody tell me if I’ve missed something – would I actually be able to install an SSD in the smaller Acer PC’s?

Or am I being an idiot? Should I just shell out £2k for an iMac?

 

[Sweetie]

It's always been my advice to avoid purchasing a Mac unless you really need to run software that is only available on a Mac. You'll always get better bang for your buck with a PC. $2k for a PC will buy you a relatively high end system. Not so much on a Mac

That all being said, what are you going to use it for? That'll change the advice given. If you're mainly editing 1080p h.264 footage, you'll benefit from a faster CPU (i7) though you won't need it, though if you're using footage that is less cpu intensive (like 4/5k Redcode) with CC, you'll be better off with more ram and extra and faster hard drives.

If you're going to be using After Effects with complicated doodads (yeah, I used that word!) then you'll need to seriously consider a decent video card (or 2-4 of them in SLI).

I'd also suggest going with the larger cases. Probably even larger than you're thinking of. It'll help when you want to upgrade/put more hard drives in the system.

External HDD's. Yes, the drive speed is very much noticeable. For editing, don't do it. Just don't... no really, don't do it. It's like I'm watching a horror movie and I know that if you open the door (use the external USB option) you're going to die (performance will suck). Not only will you not want to use an external hdd, you'll want to use multiple hard drives, preferably in a raid setup.

Optimally, you'll want fast internal SATA3 hard drives, maybe an extra SSD for the cache, with lots of ram. If you can afford more than 16gig, get it.

There are other things you'll want to consider, like dual monitors for editing. It can really make your life easier.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[8salacious9]

I would recommend 3rd generation processors unless haswell is cheaper and more powerful for CPU.

you can live on 8gb RAM as i do, but essentially for ram previews you will need 16gb to avoid most frustration.

you want Nvidia graphics cards with lots of CUDA cores because adobe utilises that, dont bother with amd graphics unless someone knows something i dont.

PSU you want at least 700 PSU with the 12v 80plus bronze or gold whatever its called.

for a start up OS you may want a small SSD around 80gb if theres such a thing, then you want 2x 1tb drives, you will want usb 3 compatibilty, im unsure if motherboards come with Thunderbolt ports yet at an affordable price, Firewire ports are good but can be added via expansion, you will want a motherboard that you can SLI graphics cards on.

for a decent level graphics card thats cheap the gtx 660 is going down in price these days, always a good starting point.

you can modify adobes graphics card recognition list by finding a document that contains approved cards, theres loads of links online about it.

as for cases i have the zalman z11 which is a beaute looks like something batman would have

if you shell out over 2k for an imac you will slap yourself.. really..

building a pc is exciting aswell as gaining new knowledge.

theres a site called toms hardware or something like that where responses are pretty quick, i can guarantee the boffs there are 10x more knowledgable about cheaper resources for bang for your buck.

 

[mad_hatter]

I was really looking for a cheaper, off-the-shelf solution that would suit my needs. I’ve been editing on a laptop, with an i3 and 3GB RAM, using Vegas Pro 9, for quite some time and never had any massive problems. Rendering is a bit slow, but that’s about it. Of course, the longest piece I’ve had to edit totalled about 3 mins.

Having said that, my original intention was to build. Here’s what I was looking at:

CPU - i7 4770K
MOBO - Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD3H
RAM - Corsair Vengence 16GB
Graphics - EVGA GeForce GTX 660
SSD - Samsung 120GB 840
HDD - WD 2TB Caviar Green
PSU - Corsair CX600
Case - Corsair 200R
Drive - Pioneer BDR-208DBK
OS - Windows

That lot totals £1000, without a monitor. The cost isn’t too much of a problem for me, but I’d hate to buy (or build) something that was massively overkill. I want my system to run Premiere Pro and After Effects, but I’m under the impression that any of the PC’s I listed would do that. Am I wrong?

If building really is my best bet (so spending all that money is the only option), I might just jump in and do that!

 

[Sweetie]

Those specs are very similar to what I have here (apart from your CPU is a little better and I have my video files over 3 HDD's, the Ti version of that video card and two 24" monitors.).

As I said, it does depend on what you're editing. Home videos? 5k Feature films? Or something in between? Each will change your requirements. Will any computer do it? Yeah sure. Are you looking to do it in real time? I've mostly being doing h.264 at 1080p with simple effects and its mostly going at real time. When I work on 4k footage, it really struggles (I suspect I need a lot more ram and faster hard drives).

With After Effects it can depend on what you're doing. Complicated stuff can take hours, sometimes days to render. Faster systems cut that time down drastically. So it'll still handle the tasks, just not as fast.

you can modify adobes graphics card recognition list by finding a document that contains approved cards, theres loads of links online about it.

I'm fairly sure CC doesn't have the same problem that CS6 had in that regard, just now they don't guarantee reliability with non-approved cards.

 

[Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC]

For video editing, always try to get a computer with the processing power of the latest game machines.
You are forgetting to get a 3D Blu-Ray burner drive, a 3D HD display with a DVI or HDMI connection to your video card. USB3 is good. But, also look into Firewire 2 connection as well. A quad core or octo core processor is better, but only available in desktop computers when last I checked. Some of the come with dual pipeline video cards for insanely fast video and perfect for video machines.

The reason why you need a DVI connect from the computer to the HD monitor is because of digital licensing copy protection with Blu-ray movies. Your computer won't be able to play a Blu-ray movie from a store without a DVI cable to verify the digital license.

Also make sure you can add a second monitor to the computer later. Or, better yet make sure it has an HDMI output to an HDTV. Professional editors work with a monitor and TV set output to see how their editing project will look on a TV as well as a computer.

Old AVIDs also had VCRs attached to them to print to video. Adobe Premiere has had that ability for a long time as well. But, these days, everything id Blu-ray and DVD. A Blu-ray burner drive is backwardly compatible with DVD. A 3D Blu-ray burner drive is backwardly compatible with 2D Blu-ray and DVD playback and burning. DVD Encore comes with Premiere and allows you to author DVDs.

 

[mad_hatter]

…it does depend on what you're editing. Home videos? 5k Feature films? Or something in between? Each will change your requirements. Will any computer do it? Yeah sure. Are you looking to do it in real time? I've mostly being doing h.264 at 1080p with simple effects and its mostly going at real time. When I work on 4k footage, it really struggles…

At current, all footage will be from my 60D, so h.264 .movs at 1080/24p, same as yours. I expect my build system would handle it just fine. As for 4k, I guess I’d like a system that was flexible enough to be upgraded to handle 4k at some point in the future. But that then leads me back down the road of “Do I get a cheap, off the shelf system for what I’m currently doing, then shell out for a whole new system in perhaps 2 years’ time, when I actually need it?”.



MDM – Thanks for your input, but I have a few questions…

For video editing, always try to get a computer with the processing power of the latest game machines....

That seems very vague to me. You can buy gaming computers of all different specs. You can pay anywhere from £800 to £8000 for a gaming machine. Am I wrong in thinking that graphics processing is almost redundant for video editing, as in; it’s barely used at all?

You are forgetting to get a 3D Blu-Ray burner drive, a 3D HD display with a DVI or HDMI connection to your video card.…

On my build list, I included a Blu-Ray burner. There’s no such thing as a 3D Blu-Ray burner, is there? Blu-Ray is Blu-Ray, the computer software processes the 3D aspect, right? I’m not really interested in 3D anyway, so the monitor specifically is not required.

Also make sure you can add a second monitor to the computer later….

I’ve seen dual-monitor set ups for editing, but what exactly is the benefit? You’d have your NLE open on one screen, then you use the other screen for – what, exactly? Web browsing, e-mails, sorting through files, etc, etc? Is it just to save you the time of minimising the NLE? If so, I think I can live without that benefit.


Just to be clear, at present, I’d be editing DSLR footage, for my own projects. I’d need the system to be able to handle a feature film. I’m just after something that will handle the work, at a reasonable pace, making my life just a little easier.

Cheers.

 

[Sweetie]

At current, all footage will be from my 60D, so h.264 .movs at 1080/24p, same as yours. I expect my build system would handle it just fine. As for 4k, I guess I’d like a system that was flexible enough to be upgraded to handle 4k at some point in the future. But that then leads me back down the road of “Do I get a cheap, off the shelf system for what I’m currently doing, then shell out for a whole new system in perhaps 2 years’ time, when I actually need it?”.

If you're talking 2 years down the track, then yes, just get what you need now. The price of systems by then would have fallen and the performance would have risen. An i5 would be enough to handle what you're looking at for editing.

I’ve seen dual-monitor set ups for editing, but what exactly is the benefit? You’d have your NLE open on one screen, then you use the other screen for – what, exactly? Web browsing, e-mails, sorting through files, etc, etc? Is it just to save you the time of minimising the NLE? If so, I think I can live without that benefit.

It's really hard to explain. It's just more efficient and a lot of times, more convenient. There are a lot of times where I'll drag the NLE over the two screens, or float a window, or work in two applications seeing the results in both.

Just to be clear, at present, I’d be editing DSLR footage, for my own projects. I’d need the system to be able to handle a feature film. I’m just after something that will handle the work, at a reasonable pace, making my life just a little easier.

This may be where the extra ram over everything else could be a good idea. At least 16gig.

 

[CraigL]

Am I wrong in thinking that graphics processing is almost redundant for video editing, as in; it’s barely used at all?

Yes, you are wrong. Almost all modern video processing systems (NLE or VFX) will use the GPU (Graphics Processing Unit) to do the number crunching, and with "cores" ranging in the hundreds or thousands (compared to 4 or 8 in your CPU) it can do the crunching in a significantly more timely manner (orders of magnitude).

I’ve seen dual-monitor set ups for editing, but what exactly is the benefit? You’d have your NLE open on one screen, then you use the other screen for – what, exactly? Web browsing, e-mails, sorting through files, etc, etc? Is it just to save you the time of minimising the NLE? If so, I think I can live without that benefit.

I run 3 monitors, two for the NLE and a TV for the video preview. Again, most NLEs allow you to use a second monitor in a full screen mode. It's much easier to use, and will allow for better colour space management as it can be displayed in sRGB which is closer to what a TV would show. Also, having one monitor for files and/or source material, or one for the controls for the VFX program, or one for browsing to find info on something you're trying to do in the NLE or VFX program.

I couldn't work without two monitors. In fact, I only use 16:10 monitors at home to get 1200 vertical lines instead of the 1080. Next step will be a couple of 2560x1600 monitors.

You can never, ever have enough screen real estate!

CraigL

 

[MetalRenard]

Pretty much everything has been said, but I'll just jump in and say I agree that more screen space is better than less, every single time (I used a 13" laptop for audio creation for over 3 years. When I moved to a desktop I splashed out on a big screen and I can't work on laptops any more haha). On the other hand it's a choice and not one you have to make right away, just make sure you get a machine that could handle it -potentially- so you have the -option- to go down that route later.

Oh and never use a USB2 device for video editing. You won't get beyond 25mb/s transfer!
On the other hand, USB3 is fine as it reaches around 600mb/s.

 

[Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC]

My Blu-ray burner and video card are 3D Blu-Ray. The burner drive is made by LG and the video card is a G-Force.

They exist.

Do yourself a favor and Google Quad Core and Octa Core computers with dual video cards. You will find they are so powerful they are only recommended for two applications: video games and video editing.

Sony or Dell have desktop computers with them. I forget which one. I had a computer store build a custom computer for me. There is very little in the difference in the price of one built by a major computer maker and one built by a computer store.

 

[Sweetie]

Yes, you are wrong. Almost all modern video processing systems (NLE or VFX) will use the GPU (Graphics Processing Unit) to do the number crunching, and with "cores" ranging in the hundreds or thousands (compared to 4 or 8 in your CPU) it can do the crunching in a significantly more timely manner (orders of magnitude).

Premiere Pro is CPU bound, especially when you're using h.264 1080p. It's disappointing but it hardly touches the video card.

 

[Cracker Funk]

I think it's a smart idea to run with two internal hard drives, one for software to run off, and the other for your footage.

 

[mad_hatter]

Ok, thanks for all the advice people. I've decided to go with my original plan and build. I've made a few changes to my components list above, I'll be getting it all on order tomorrow. I'll let you all know how it goes....

 

[8salacious9]

My Blu-ray burner and video card are 3D Blu-Ray. The burner drive is made by LG and the video card is a G-Force.

They exist.

Do yourself a favor and Google Quad Core and Octa Core computers with dual video cards. You will find they are so powerful they are only recommended for two applications: video games and video editing.

Sony or Dell have desktop computers with them. I forget which one. I had a computer store build a custom computer for me. There is very little in the difference in the price of one built by a major computer maker and one built by a computer store.

what difference does it make if you do it yourself? its not hard.

 

[Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC]

In my case, it's time and space. Anyone who has seen my flat will tell you there is no space. It is filled up with audio and video equipment. And, there are movie props and costume stuff everywhere. Some of my older computer equipment is buried under boxes with video lights. There is no space to build a computer. I still have old computers I built years ago. And, they still work. But, they are 16 years of age and older.

It was just easier to have a computer store in my neighborhood build a new one with the specs and add-ons I picked out. They even give the computer a one year warranty with their store in case something goes wrong with the computer.

 

[mad_hatter]

Yeah, I don't really have a local computer shop to go and bater with. I think they're quite a low profit operation, so they don't last too long in the current financial climate.

I did try putting a system together on several custom pc sites, but the difference in price amounts to at least £250 on the kind of build I'm going for. That's my monitor right there!

Anyway, building doesn't scare me. So, I've got my list together. Order tonight. Recieve Tuesday. Build by the weekend. Simples!

I hope....

 

[Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC]

Well the economy is bad everywhere. It is especially tough for the small shop owners with smaller cash flow than big businesses. I sound off about it on Facebook when small shop owners go out of business in my neighborhood. And, there have been quite a few. They are replaced by big business chain outlet stores.

If you have experience in electronics and computers from a current or previous job or took classes in school, building a computer is not hard at all. I studied computers and electronics in school, which helped me wiz through self-study classes at work. And, I've built and repair computers for myself at home and on my job as well. If I didn't have an issue with no space to work at home, I would have built a new one. As it is, I repaired my laptop this year by troubleshooting the LED back light display burned out and ordered a replacement part by Google by entering the part name, computer maker and model number, and ordering the part from China. I was able to swap out the part on top of a small folding table I opened up with room for the laptop and part to do the job.

There are lots of small screws to work with. I highly recommend having a ratchet magnetic screwdriver with interchangeable tips around for the job and a container to put the screws in as you work. And, have a small battery torch with strong light with you in case screws, connectors, or cables fall into dark places inside the computer case and hide behind a power supply, circuit board, or computer drive.

Also make sure you are grounded to frame by touching the metal frame of the computer when installing memory chips and circuit boards.

 

[Metrostar]

I have seen a massive improvement in editing HD video, by using two SSD's. One for windows and programs and the other just for the HD files. They are expensive, but so good to edit with.

Other than that, my specs aren't that high. Windows 7 (64bit), 3.1 Quad, 8gig ram, fairly standard graphics card.

 

[Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC]

Another thing to consider too is due to corporation greed for profit, pre-built computers from the computer manufacturers no longer come with restore disks or ROM chips to restore your software, if your computer crashes. You are out of luck. They don't even give Windows or Mac OS disks anymore.

If your computer is store built custom, or you build one yourself, you get all of the disks which can save you hundreds to thousands depending on how much software you invested into your computer.